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Spline for CV Joints |
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jhu42 ![]() Welding Master ![]() ![]() Joined: Jan/27/2009 Location: Columbus, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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Hey All,
I am working on this years car's drivetrain and I was thinking of connecting my cv joints to the car using a spline to match what is on the end of the cv joint. Basically I wanted to use the same system found on ATVs so that I did not have to modify the cv joint. Our axles are off of a Polaris sportsman 300. Is there a set of sizes for splines, like a #4 spline or something like that? If not how is the size of the spline referred to? Thanks, Later, Adam |
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Adam Baumgartner
Social Media Director, #BajaMaryland Test Driver, Honda R&D Americas Inc Hopkins Baja, '07-'10 |
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karman1970 ![]() Milling Master ![]() Joined: Nov/18/2008 Location: Ft Worth,TexASS Status: Offline Points: 51 |
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The Machinist's Handbook will tell you how to measure them. But, you're most likely going to need a professional machine shop to make your part. I don't know about Polaris, but the Japs naturally use metric splines, which have an odd number of splines. As far as I can tell, they are custom-made for each company. NTN makes some of the Yamaha stuff, so you might contact them.
We buy spline shaft and adapters and weld them to our CV cups and wheel hubs. Check out Grobinc.com, also. They might have something you can use. |
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Kenneth ![]() Milling Master ![]() Joined: Jan/18/2009 Status: Offline Points: 78 |
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We actually have a great splining sponsor who will hand grind our shafts to fit any spline that we bring them. If they have enough time, they'll even hand grind splines that they have hobs for because they end up fitting a lot better. I'd be surprised if they're the only ones in the country doing this. You may just want to call around and ask.
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University of Michigan Baja Racing
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adrive7 ![]() Baja Godfather ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct/19/2008 Location: Lancaster, CA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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We run the same halfshafts, and do the same thing. The first time we
used them, we were able to EDM splined couplers ourself (Pain in the
butt). The second time (last year) we used the stock final gear out of
the hawkeye gearbox, which has the splines built in. This year, our
machining sponsor who cuts our CVT splined shaft is cutting the
halfshaft splines for us as well. I just give him a halfshaft and he
figures out what it needs to be.
Also, I have a Solidworks file which is supposed to be the spline in question. I take no responsibility for making it, and can't guarantee it's right. But it should be close. http://osubajasae.googlepages.com/CVspline.SLDPRT I think it's drawn in Soldworks 2006. Edited by adrive7 - Feb/08/2009 at 12:30pm |
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-Joe
Chief Organizer, Baja California 2016, 2017, 2019 Ohio State Baja 2005-2009 Co-Host, Science... Sort Of http://www.sciencesortof.com |
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jhu42 ![]() Welding Master ![]() ![]() Joined: Jan/27/2009 Location: Columbus, Ohio Status: Offline Points: 145 |
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I see.
Thanks for the file I will double check it with our dimensions on our spline. A question for you Joe, how do you account for the lack of any plunge on the Hawkeye CV joints? It seems that if there is any plunge in the suspension arms the cv joint will bind and will not work. Thanks, Adam |
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Adam Baumgartner
Social Media Director, #BajaMaryland Test Driver, Honda R&D Americas Inc Hopkins Baja, '07-'10 |
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adrive7 ![]() Baja Godfather ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct/19/2008 Location: Lancaster, CA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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Only one side has the ability to travel. The inboard CV does not move. The outboard CV can move maybe an inch, which has been enough for us.
Also, if you haven't dealt with these halfshafts before, don't expect to be able to remove the inboard CV from the shaft. |
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-Joe
Chief Organizer, Baja California 2016, 2017, 2019 Ohio State Baja 2005-2009 Co-Host, Science... Sort Of http://www.sciencesortof.com |
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scotty82 ![]() Bolt Sorter ![]() Joined: Feb/04/2009 Location: dallas Status: Offline Points: 14 |
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scotty
Taylor race engineering www.taylor-race.com scotty@taylor-race.com |
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Jeremy_H ![]() Bolt Sorter ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct/24/2008 Location: Pine Mtn, GA Status: Offline Points: 6 |
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Adrive,
If the hawkeye shafts are anything like yamaha shafts, you can-ish (this is an important ish that is highlighted later) remove the non-plunging CV from the shaft. First, find one of the inner cage bearing slots that is larger than the others. Rotate the shaft up until you find the critical angle that puts that bearing high enough to be removed (pop it out with a small flat head, being careful not to let it bounce across the shop and under the mill. Don't force it too much, that inner cage is pretty damn weak). Then, you have to rotate the shaft around, popping the bearings out in opposites (like torquing wheel nuts). If you overshoot your rotation, it usually jams up and you'll have a heck of a time getting it back. Next, you have to rotate the shaft until it will lift straight out, aligning the 2 larger bearing slots in such a way that you will find once a decade. Remove the inner cage. It will look like the inner bearing race is married to the shaft through magic, and older shafts will have some play. In reality, there is a very absurdly strong lock ring inside. Press the shaft out while supporting the bearing race, and presto-ish, 50% of the time you'll have an intact shaft. The other 50%, you'll have broken the spline ends off, and the shaft is worthless, but hopefully the bearing race is not busted (10% of the time I'd say it will be). When re-assembling, it's much, much, much easier to put the bearing together before mating it with the shaft, but if you use a shaft/lockring that is over sized or over tolerance, the inner race may expand, shattering the bearing cage, and reducing your patience to a pile of cinders. This is a good way to get OEM quality CVs/Spindles on aftermarket shafts, but, it takes about 2 hours per axle to take apart, and another 3-4 hours to properly assemble the new axle (much of that time spent chasing greased ball bearings around), so if you need spares, make them before the race. It's also pretty consuming, last year I went through about 20 axles to get the 7 used during the season (although at least one of those broken ones had it comin'). |
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goliath0904 ![]() Bolt Sorter ![]() Joined: Feb/19/2009 Location: Dayton, OH Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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We are using the Polaris Sportman 300 CV joints as well. We just had them professionaly measured by the company that is cutting the internal splines in our sprocket hub.
The spline on the CV joint: ANSI B92.1 Class 5 Involute Spline Diametral Pitch: 24/48 Module Pitch: 1.05833 Pressure Angle: 30 Number of Teeth: 20 Base Diameter: 0.72169 Minor Diameter: 0.77708 Major Diameter: 0.875 The measurements of the mating internal spline: ANSI B92.1 Class 5 Involute Spline Diametral Pitch: 24/48 Module Pitch: 1.05833 Pressure Angle: 30 Number of Teeth: 20 Base Diameter: 0.72169 Minor Diameter: 0.79167 Major Diameter: 0.88958 Pilot Diameter for broach: 0.768 |
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JeremyB ![]() Organizer ![]() ![]() Last one standing Joined: Oct/13/2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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I've written a short how-to on uploading files to your File Manager. http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71&PID=593#593 Edited by JeremyB - Feb/26/2009 at 3:25pm |
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goliath0904 ![]() Bolt Sorter ![]() Joined: Feb/19/2009 Location: Dayton, OH Status: Offline Points: 20 |
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Polaris finally got back to me with the spline data...
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ErikHardy ![]() Baja Godfather ![]() ![]() Joined: Apr/12/2010 Location: Hood, Flint, MI Status: Offline Points: 939 |
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Joe,
How did the final gear out of the hawkeye gearbox work for the vehicle? Would you recommend it? If so, where would you recommend a place to get it?
Thanks,
Erik
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adrive7 ![]() Baja Godfather ![]() ![]() Joined: Oct/19/2008 Location: Lancaster, CA Status: Offline Points: 711 |
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It worked great. We have never had any problems with that gearbox. It was first run in Montreal, and is still running around, without ever needing more than oil changes.
That said, in order to get said gear (gearset, actually), we had to buy the whole gearbox from Polaris. We got it through the sponsorship program. I forget how much it cost us. We used the final drive gear, and also the pinion gearshaft. The pinion is cut onto the shaft, so we just machined that shaft to do what we needed. |
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-Joe
Chief Organizer, Baja California 2016, 2017, 2019 Ohio State Baja 2005-2009 Co-Host, Science... Sort Of http://www.sciencesortof.com |
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elliottm ![]() Bolt Sorter ![]() Joined: Feb/05/2011 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Does anyone know if the spline dimensions for the Sportsman 300 are the same as on the Sportsman 500 Drive Shafts??
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blue2kss ![]() Welding Master ![]() ![]() Joined: Dec/23/2008 Location: USF Status: Offline Points: 169 |
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The spline callout for the Polaris Hawkeye 300 is as follows. Not sure if its the same for the Sportsman 300, but I would imagine so. The Hawkeye was the lightest axle set we could find too.
ANSI B92.1 Class 5 Involute Spline Diametral Pitch: 24/48 Module Pitch: 1.05833 Pressure Angle: 30 Number of Teeth: 20 Base Diameter: 0.72169 Minor Diameter: 0.79167 Major Diameter: 0.88958 Pilot Diameter for broach: 0.768 |
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Dustin Bride
University of South Florida SAE Alumni/Consultant Mechanical Engineer - Naval Surface Warfare Center, Marine Corps. Counter IED Development |
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nehashj ![]() Milling Master ![]() Joined: Sep/15/2010 Status: Offline Points: 44 |
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Hey,
I am using Polaris 525 IRS 2009 model rear assembly. I contacted Polaris but they are not willing to give me the data of the half shafts. I need to make custom axles as I am sure the in boards won't plunge more than 3". ( maybe I am wrong ) If anyone has spline data of the Inboards and the Outboards of the ATV please share it too. |
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blue2kss ![]() Welding Master ![]() ![]() Joined: Dec/23/2008 Location: USF Status: Offline Points: 169 |
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Cant help you there. Another team had the splines measured out for the Hawkeye 300 and was willing the share the information. But 3" is a ton of plunge. I would change the geometry so it wasn't so severe and run the standard axles. |
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Dustin Bride
University of South Florida SAE Alumni/Consultant Mechanical Engineer - Naval Surface Warfare Center, Marine Corps. Counter IED Development |
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johnpate01 ![]() Welding Master ![]() Joined: Mar/09/2009 Location: Knoxville, TN Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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You're not going to get 3" of plunge out of the 525 IRS axles. Maybe 1.5" per side max. Fix the geometry first.
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-John
Co-Captain, Team Tennessee 2008-2010 |
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igorbarash ![]() Bolt Sorter ![]() Joined: Feb/23/2010 Location: ASU Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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In the past we have used the Polaris 525 IRS axles on our car with a square slip joint in the middle, not to take up the axle plunge caused by articulation (we run dual a-arms, so we don't have near the plunge to max out the CVs) but to make assembly / disassembly of the driveline easier. It's one more thing to break, but we have not had an issue with them once they were properly welded (they were butt welded on the '09 car
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Igor Barash
Arizona State University SAE Baja Team Captain |
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clarkson_baja ![]() Bolt Sorter ![]() Joined: Sep/08/2011 Location: Potsdam, NY Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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How did those 525 PRS shafts work for you? We are thinking about running those this year. Did you have any reliability issues or anything?
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Tony Rivera ![]() Welding Master ![]() ![]() Joined: Nov/17/2009 Location: Tempe Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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The 525 shafts worked "OK". We did break them twice, but if you keep the CV angles minimized they will last a lot longer.
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Tony Rivera
Arizona State University Team Captain 2009-2010 Local Motors Vehicle Systems Engineer |
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dillon_b12 ![]() Baja Godfather ![]() ![]() Joined: Nov/15/2008 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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What failed?
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