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Spline for CV Joints

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jhu42 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhu42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spline for CV Joints
    Posted: Feb/06/2009 at 7:28pm
Hey All,

I am working on this years car's drivetrain and I was thinking of connecting my cv joints to the car using a spline to match what is on the  end of the cv joint.  Basically I wanted to use the same system found on ATVs so that I did not have to modify the cv joint.  Our axles are off of a Polaris sportsman 300. 

Is there a set of sizes for splines, like a #4 spline or something like that? If not how is the size of the spline referred to? 

Thanks,
Later,
Adam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote karman1970 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2009 at 10:22pm
The Machinist's Handbook will tell you how to measure them. But, you're most likely going to need a professional machine shop to make your part. I don't know about Polaris, but the Japs naturally use metric splines, which have an odd number of splines. As far as I can tell, they are custom-made for each company. NTN makes some of the Yamaha stuff, so you might contact them.

We buy spline shaft and adapters and weld them to our CV cups and wheel hubs. Check out Grobinc.com, also. They might have something you can use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kenneth Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/07/2009 at 11:32am
We actually have a great splining sponsor who will hand grind our shafts to fit any spline that we bring them. If they have enough time, they'll even hand grind splines that they have hobs for because they end up fitting a lot better. I'd be surprised if they're the only ones in the country doing this. You may just want to call around and ask.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrive7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/08/2009 at 12:19pm
We run the same halfshafts, and do the same thing. The first time we used them, we were able to EDM splined couplers ourself (Pain in the butt). The second time (last year) we used the stock final gear out of the hawkeye gearbox, which has the splines built in. This year, our machining sponsor who cuts our CVT splined shaft is cutting the halfshaft splines for us as well. I just give him a halfshaft and he figures out what it needs to be.

Also, I have a Solidworks file which is supposed to be the spline in question. I take no responsibility for making it, and can't guarantee it's right. But it should be close. I'll post it in the file depot. Scratch that, couldn't figure out how to upload files there. Here is a link.

http://osubajasae.googlepages.com/CVspline.SLDPRT

I think it's drawn in Soldworks 2006.


Edited by adrive7 - Feb/08/2009 at 12:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jhu42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/08/2009 at 12:44pm
I see. 

Thanks for the file I will double check it with our dimensions on our spline. 

A question for you Joe, how do you account for the lack of any plunge on the Hawkeye CV joints? It seems that if there is any plunge in the suspension arms the cv joint will bind and will not work. 

Thanks,
Adam
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrive7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/08/2009 at 12:49pm
Only one side has the ability to travel. The inboard CV does not move. The outboard CV can move maybe an inch, which has been enough for us.

Also, if you haven't dealt with these halfshafts before, don't expect to be able to remove the inboard CV from the shaft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scotty82 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/10/2009 at 2:58pm
We use a program called Quick spline. Here is a link.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeremy_H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/11/2009 at 2:16am
Adrive,

If the hawkeye shafts are anything like yamaha shafts, you can-ish (this is an important ish that is highlighted later) remove the non-plunging CV from the shaft. 

First, find one of the inner cage bearing slots that is larger than the others.  Rotate the shaft up until you find the critical angle that puts that bearing high enough to be removed (pop it out with a small flat head, being careful not to let it bounce across the shop and under the mill.  Don't force it too much, that inner cage is pretty damn weak).  Then, you have to rotate the shaft around, popping the bearings out in opposites (like torquing wheel nuts).  If you overshoot your rotation, it usually jams up and you'll have a heck of a time getting it back.  Next, you have to rotate the shaft until it will lift straight out, aligning the 2 larger bearing slots in such a way that you will find once a decade.  Remove the inner cage.  It will look like the inner bearing race is married to the shaft through magic, and older shafts will have some play.  In reality, there is a very absurdly strong lock ring inside.  Press the shaft out while supporting the bearing race, and presto-ish, 50% of the time you'll have an intact shaft.  The other 50%, you'll have broken the spline ends off, and the shaft is worthless, but hopefully the bearing race is not busted (10% of the time I'd say it will be).  When re-assembling, it's much, much, much easier to put the bearing together before mating it with the shaft, but if you use a shaft/lockring that is over sized or over tolerance, the inner race may expand, shattering the bearing cage, and reducing your patience to a pile of cinders.

This is a good way to get OEM quality CVs/Spindles on aftermarket shafts, but, it takes about 2 hours per axle to take apart, and another 3-4 hours to properly assemble the new axle (much of that time spent chasing greased ball bearings around), so if you need spares, make them before the race.  It's also pretty consuming, last year I went through about 20 axles to get the 7 used during the season (although at least one of those broken ones had it comin').
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath0904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/19/2009 at 8:17pm
We are using the Polaris Sportman 300 CV joints as well.  We just had them professionaly measured by the company that is cutting the internal splines in our sprocket hub.

The spline on the CV joint:
ANSI B92.1 Class 5 Involute Spline
Diametral Pitch: 24/48
Module Pitch: 1.05833
Pressure Angle: 30
Number of Teeth: 20
Base Diameter: 0.72169
Minor Diameter: 0.77708
Major Diameter: 0.875

The measurements of the mating internal spline:
ANSI B92.1 Class 5 Involute Spline
Diametral Pitch: 24/48
Module Pitch: 1.05833
Pressure Angle: 30
Number of Teeth: 20
Base Diameter: 0.72169
Minor Diameter: 0.79167
Major Diameter: 0.88958
Pilot Diameter for broach: 0.768
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JeremyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/26/2009 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by adrive7 adrive7 wrote:

I'll post it in the file depot. Scratch that, couldn't figure out how to upload files there.

I've written a short how-to on uploading files to your File Manager.
http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=71&PID=593#593



Edited by JeremyB - Feb/26/2009 at 3:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote goliath0904 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/01/2009 at 8:48pm
Polaris finally got back to me with the spline data...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/09/2010 at 10:49am
Originally posted by adrive7 adrive7 wrote:

We run the same halfshafts, and do the same thing. The first time we used them, we were able to EDM splined couplers ourself (Pain in the butt). The second time (last year) we used the stock final gear out of the hawkeye gearbox, which has the splines built in. This year, our machining sponsor who cuts our CVT splined shaft is cutting the halfshaft splines for us as well. I just give him a halfshaft and he figures out what it needs to be.

 
Joe,
How did the final gear out of the hawkeye gearbox work for the vehicle? Would you recommend it? If so, where would you recommend a place to get it?
Thanks,
Erik
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote adrive7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/09/2010 at 11:06am
It worked great. We have never had any problems with that gearbox. It was first run in Montreal, and is still running around, without ever needing more than oil changes.

That said, in order to get said gear (gearset, actually), we had to buy the whole gearbox from Polaris. We got it through the sponsorship program. I forget how much it cost us.

We used the final drive gear, and also the pinion gearshaft. The pinion is cut onto the shaft, so we just machined that shaft to do what we needed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elliottm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2011 at 4:57pm
Does anyone know if the spline dimensions for the Sportsman 300 are the same as on the Sportsman 500 Drive Shafts??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blue2kss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2011 at 5:24pm
The spline callout for the Polaris Hawkeye 300 is as follows.  Not sure if its the same for the Sportsman 300, but I would imagine so.  The Hawkeye was the lightest axle set we could find too. 

ANSI B92.1 Class 5 Involute Spline
Diametral Pitch: 24/48
Module Pitch: 1.05833
Pressure Angle: 30
Number of Teeth: 20
Base Diameter: 0.72169
Minor Diameter: 0.79167
Major Diameter: 0.88958
Pilot Diameter for broach: 0.768
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nehashj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2011 at 1:26pm
Hey,

I am using Polaris 525 IRS 2009 model rear assembly. I contacted Polaris but they are not willing to give me the data of the half shafts.

I need to make custom axles as I am sure the in boards won't plunge more than 3". ( maybe I am wrong )

If anyone has spline data of the Inboards and the Outboards of the ATV please share it too. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blue2kss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2011 at 4:31pm
Originally posted by nehashj nehashj wrote:

Hey,

I am using Polaris 525 IRS 2009 model rear assembly. I contacted Polaris but they are not willing to give me the data of the half shafts.

I need to make custom axles as I am sure the in boards won't plunge more than 3". ( maybe I am wrong )

If anyone has spline data of the Inboards and the Outboards of the ATV please share it too. 
 


Cant help you there.  Another team had the splines measured out for the Hawkeye 300 and was willing the share the information. 

But 3" is a ton of plunge.  I would change the geometry so it wasn't so severe and run the standard axles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnpate01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/06/2011 at 5:26pm
You're not going to get 3" of plunge out of the 525 IRS axles.  Maybe 1.5" per side max.  Fix the geometry first.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorbarash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/14/2011 at 6:40pm
In the past we have used the Polaris 525 IRS axles on our car with a square slip joint in the middle, not to take up the axle plunge caused by articulation (we run dual a-arms, so we don't have near the plunge to max out the CVs) but to make assembly / disassembly of the driveline easier. It's one more thing to break, but we have not had an issue with them once they were properly welded (they were butt welded on the '09 car Shocked). You'll see people use this technique to make home-made long slip driveshafts for rock crawlers all the time..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote clarkson_baja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2011 at 9:43pm
How did those 525 PRS shafts work for you?  We are thinking about running those this year.  Did you have any reliability issues or anything?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tony Rivera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/09/2011 at 11:30am
The 525 shafts worked "OK". We did break them twice, but if you keep the CV angles minimized they will last a lot longer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/09/2011 at 11:40am
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