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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by tech.tmr11 tech.tmr11 wrote:

last time we used locknuts....no problem with that.... 


Using a normal nut when you need a tapered one would be inviting disaster. Your wheel would never be concentric.

One option if you need tapered lock nuts is to make tapered washers and the use a normal lock nut. Wouldn't be too hard to drill out a tapered nut and cut it down to turn it into a tapered washer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akron 1998 to 2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 2:52pm
Wheels:  I'm guessing its because of price but I'm a bit surprised we were the only Baja team that seemed to us Keizer Wheels.  They are heavily used in SAE Formula.  If you can find a Douglas rim in the size you need, they're cheaper.  But for a little more $ Keizer will make a rim in any bolt pattern, diameter, width, back spacing you want.  You can get absolutely zero scrub radius with custom back spacing!  Don't know what the current pricing is like but a custom rim with dent rings and mud cover cost about $120 back in the day.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Akron 1998 to 2004 Akron 1998 to 2004 wrote:

Wheels:  I'm guessing its because of price but I'm a bit surprised we were the only Baja team that seemed to us Keizer Wheels.  They are heavily used in SAE Formula.  If you can find a Douglas rim in the size you need, they're cheaper.  But for a little more $ Keizer will make a rim in any bolt pattern, diameter, width, back spacing you want.  You can get absolutely zero scrub radius with custom back spacing!  Don't know what the current pricing is like but a custom rim with dent rings and mud cover cost about $120 back in the day.
 
 

With the demands of todays racers, you can get a Douglas wheel in almost any backspacing that you can dream of. Not only that, but personally I don't know how much I'm going to trust a road wheels with what we do. I've seen our Formula team break wheels. Judging by how many wheels I've destroyed, Baja just demands something stronger.

If you have a properly designed suspension, you can get a zero scrub radius with whatever wheel you choose. Like maybe something off the shelf.

EDIT- didn't realize that Keizer makes quad wheels too. Thought it was just sprint car and road wheels.


Edited by tp - Mar/14/2011 at 3:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 5:04pm

Along the lines of what tp said, would there be enough material to put the lugnut in the lathe and put a small taper on the end of it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 5:08pm
Most tapered lugs are 37 degrees (I believe). You would need a pretty massive lock nut to put that sort of taper on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akron 1998 to 2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by tp tp wrote:

With the demands of todays racers, you can get a Douglas wheel in almost any backspacing that you can dream of. Not only that, but personally I don't know how much I'm going to trust a road wheels with what we do. I've seen our Formula team break wheels. Judging by how many wheels I've destroyed, Baja just demands something stronger.

If you have a properly designed suspension, you can get a zero scrub radius with whatever wheel you choose. Like maybe something off the shelf.

EDIT- didn't realize that Keizer makes quad wheels too. Thought it was just sprint car and road wheels.
 

Douglas wheels are almost all spaced 3" in from the outside.  Keizer will make you one spaced 0".  That means your custom A-arms can be 3" longer, better angle on the ball joints, more travel, what ever you want to design, etc.  Keizer makes nice spun metal race quad wheels.  Never damaged one with a anti-dent ring.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 5:17pm
Originally posted by tp tp wrote:

Most tapered lugs are 37 degrees (I believe). You would need a pretty massive lock nut to put that sort of taper on it.
 
I misread what he was talking about, I thought he had a flat lugnut and just needed a tapered end, my mistake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 5:57pm
You can backspace Douglas wheels 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.5 or 5 inches. The problems is if you got too much one way or the other you end up putting lots of stress on your wheel bearings.
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Originally posted by Akron 1998 to 2004 Akron 1998 to 2004 wrote:

Originally posted by tp tp wrote:

With the demands of todays racers, you can get a Douglas wheel in almost any backspacing that you can dream of. Not only that, but personally I don't know how much I'm going to trust a road wheels with what we do. I've seen our Formula team break wheels. Judging by how many wheels I've destroyed, Baja just demands something stronger.

If you have a properly designed suspension, you can get a zero scrub radius with whatever wheel you choose. Like maybe something off the shelf.

EDIT- didn't realize that Keizer makes quad wheels too. Thought it was just sprint car and road wheels.
 

Douglas wheels are almost all spaced 3" in from the outside.  Keizer will make you one spaced 0".  That means your custom A-arms can be 3" longer, better angle on the ball joints, more travel, what ever you want to design, etc.  Keizer makes nice spun metal race quad wheels.  Never damaged one with a anti-dent ring.


Douglas wheels can be had in 4+1 as well as the standard 3+2 offset.

I e-mailed Keizer near the end of '08 for some pricing so I'm not sure how current this is:

Originally posted by dillon_b12 dillon_b12 wrote:

Here is the e-mail I received from Keizer.  These prices are for 4x156 Yamaha(for fronts) and 4x110 Honda(for rears).  I believe this is also in an .125" thickness.  Too spendy for me.
 
"Your front proring wheels will be 2pc,   run aprox $155.
The rear would be a 3pc wheel.   Aprox $185
This would be a proring wheels.  Strengthening ring to the outside.  Sweet
wheel.   
For $20 more you can add a mudcover to the wheel. 

Our strength is superior as it is 6061 T6 parts with no shortcuts.
Attached is our front wheels with a front hubs mounted in it.
 
Wade"

Current pricing for Douglas wheels:

10x5 Wheel
3+2 Offset
4/156 Bolt Pattern  (This is a Yamaha Raptor wheel.)

Blue Label(.125): $58.00
Black Label(.160): $68.00
Red Label(.190): $77.00


Edited by dillon_b12 - Mar/14/2011 at 6:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenreed1936 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 10:22pm
We have run Keizer wheels for the last 5 or so years and just now had one destroy itself at Michigan Tech's Winter Comp.

They hold up to the abuse quite well.  A little spendy but perform very well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 10:36pm
Originally posted by Greenreed1936 Greenreed1936 wrote:

We have run Keizer wheels for the last 5 or so years and just now had one destroy itself at Michigan Tech's Winter Comp.

They hold up to the abuse quite well.  A little spendy but perform very well.


To be fair, that wasn't really the fault of the wheel...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greenreed1936 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2011 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by SDTech SDTech wrote:

Originally posted by Greenreed1936 Greenreed1936 wrote:

We have run Keizer wheels for the last 5 or so years and just now had one destroy itself at Michigan Tech's Winter Comp.

They hold up to the abuse quite well.  A little spendy but perform very well.


To be fair, that wasn't really the fault of the wheel...


Well thats true.  You were driving  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akron 1998 to 2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/15/2011 at 9:54am
Originally posted by tp tp wrote:

You can backspace Douglas wheels 1, 2, 3, 4, 4.5 or 5 inches. The problems is if you got too much one way or the other you end up putting lots of stress on your wheel bearings.
 
Where do you get your Douglas wheels from?  I'll need to buy some soon.  I need this:
 
4/4 10X6 1.0 + 5.0    0.190 (red label?)
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CLReedy21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/15/2011 at 6:53pm
You're probably gonna find that one under the "call" section.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Akron 1998 to 2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/18/2011 at 12:16pm
Just in case any one is interested.
 
They cost $140.
 
 


Edited by Akron 1998 to 2004 - Mar/18/2011 at 12:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ballast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/30/2012 at 4:20am
anyone who has used carlisle at489 2*ply tires please share your experience . I personally think that 2ply is more prone to punctures or cuts. But my doubt is that will it get punctured even under normal conditions or only under harsh conditions. Any information will be appreciated. thankyou. 

Edited by ballast - Sep/30/2012 at 4:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Soccerdan7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2012 at 10:01am
We have used them for our rears for our last 3 competitions and the only flat we had was due to a massive impact that also dented our trailing link, bent the lower camber link pretty bad and sheared the driveshaft...

They are a great lightweight rear tire.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bantu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/17/2018 at 4:28pm
Does anyone knows what are the typical values of the rolling resistance,and static friction coefficient of the mini Baja tire running on the tared track/road?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/18/2018 at 3:50am
I do not exactly know the typical values for rolling resistance of a Baja tyre but however, based on my experience, they must be in the range of 10N - 150N. Please keep in mind that rolling resistance is a function of the vertical force, inflation pressure and forward speed of the tyre and hence I have expressed it as a range. 

You can experimentally determine your tyre's static friction coefficient by using a simple spring balance. This value would be realistic and it would also have more validity during your design evaluation and car's dynamic analysis. 


Edited by sujandinesh - Jul/18/2018 at 3:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bantu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/11/2018 at 5:23pm
Hi
I am working on the Mini Baja from South Africa. The total weight of the mini Baja including the weight of the baja is 310Kg. My aim is to archive the maximum velocity between the range of 50km/h-60km/h.But I only managed to archive 44km/h by calculations.
My question is, when I calculate the resistance forces, should I consider both Static friction and Rolling resistance friction? In my calculation I considered them both and I found that, the static friction has a very huge negative impact towards achieving my goal. Now I am not sure if I should take the static friction into account.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RLM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 5:27am
The static friction of what? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bantu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 5:55am
Static friction between the Baja Tires and the surface or road. Remember the rolling friction occurs between the tires and the surface also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 8:57am
Originally posted by Bantu Bantu wrote:

Hi
I am working on the Mini Baja from South Africa. The total weight of the mini Baja including the weight of the baja is 310Kg. My aim is to archive the maximum velocity between the range of 50km/h-60km/h.But I only managed to archive 44km/h by calculations.
My question is, when I calculate the resistance forces, should I consider both Static friction and Rolling resistance friction? In my calculation I considered them both and I found that, the static friction has a very huge negative impact towards achieving my goal. Now I am not sure if I should take the static friction into account.
There is no such thing as a rolling resistance friction. It is either expressed as a moment or a force (not preferred). The rolling resistance moment maybe one of the reasons for your decreased speed range but however I would only investigate this after going through other losses such as the transmission, air drag etc. 

I do not understand what you mean by the next highlighted statement. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 9:06am
Originally posted by Bantu Bantu wrote:

Static friction between the Baja Tires and the surface or road. Remember the rolling friction occurs between the tires and the surface also.
This is definitely not one of the reasons why you have a decreased speed range. I do not understand how you would use this and calculate the resistance forces. Friction is paramount for grip without which you would have 100% slip condition i.e. the tyre with a certain angular velocity but with no forward speed. 

My suggestion would be to reinvestigate the losses in your transmission. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bantu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 9:59am
I hear u but my question is, which friction must I use in my calculations between static friction resistance and rolling friction resistance?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 10:15am
Are these calculations to determine the resistance to your car? Then neither. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bantu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 10:54am
Yes. For example: F_static = u*N, where (u=0.4) static friction coefficient and (N=310kg*9.81) normal force. Therefore F_static = 0.4*310*9.81 = 3041.1N. And F_rolling = u*N, where (u=0.02) rolling resistance coefficient and (N=310kg*9.81) normal force. Therefore F_rolling = 0.02*310*9.81 = 60.822N.

Remember there is also an air drag resistance force that I have to add on these two forces.

My question again, do I add Air drag resistance force with rolling resistance force or Air drag resistance force with static friction resistance force or I have to add all three resistance forces in order to get the total resistance force for an accelerating Baja from rest on a flat level track??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 2:32pm
Now I get what you want to ask. 

To be honest, whether to consider the static or rolling friction coefficient is a pretty basic concept, I would suggest you rethink this and try to imagine the car as a brick or a brick with wheels. 

Coming to the second part, the air drag is an additional resistance the car faces, so it is a separate effect. 

The last part, regarding the rolling resistance, I think needs some clarification. The rolling resistance is purely a resistance offered by the viscoelastic nature of the tyre rubber to a freely rolling tyre. This is coming solely from your tyre and hence is also a separate effect. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bantu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 2:47pm
Thank you for your explanations but you still have not answered my question.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/12/2018 at 3:24pm
Originally posted by sujandinesh sujandinesh wrote:

Now I get what you want to ask. 

To be honest, whether to consider the static or rolling friction coefficient is a pretty basic concept, I would suggest you rethink this and try to imagine the car as a brick or a brick with wheels. 

Coming to the second part, the air drag is an additional resistance the car faces, so it is a separate effect. 

The last part, regarding the rolling resistance, I think needs some clarification. The rolling resistance is purely a resistance offered by the viscoelastic nature of the tyre rubber to a freely rolling tyre. This is coming solely from your tyre and hence is also a separate effect. 
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Thank you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RLM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/13/2018 at 7:06am
Originally posted by sujandinesh sujandinesh wrote:

Originally posted by sujandinesh sujandinesh wrote:


To be honest, whether to consider the static or rolling friction coefficient is a pretty basic concept, I would suggest you rethink this and try to imagine the car as a brick or a brick with wheels. 


This statement was where I was trying to steer the conversation, Just didn't think it would need to be this spelled out. 
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