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Rule Book?????????????

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RLM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RLM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rule Book?????????????
    Posted: Sep/02/2015 at 7:46pm
Anyone know where the new rule book is? It seems later this year. We are just waiting on it to finalize all of our design. Seems like last years cam out beginning of August. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aztec Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/02/2015 at 10:01pm
Yea, I think it was earlier last year. But this year they are focusing on a lot of fine details...like brake lights and such. As long as the inspectors can save time by not looking at brake lights, who cares how long you have to wait for the rules. Ha!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aztec Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/02/2015 at 10:02pm
6 months should be plenty of time to build and test a car!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drvr5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/03/2015 at 9:11pm
Don't forget to factor in design time to account for the new rules!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drvr5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2015 at 9:37pm
It's now posted- and looks like there are a slew of changes. Huge kudos to the techs for the new chassis pictures. Those will probably save hours in tech for new teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aztec Warrior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2015 at 11:14pm
My interpretation of the revision to rule B15.1is that the entire primary cvt must be enclosed by aluminum or steel (not just the belt). Finally! That has been discussed here multiple times, and was probably the biggest safety issues with the rules. Glad that lesson didn't have to be learned the hard way!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IM31408 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/05/2015 at 1:56am
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NOTE: Instrumentation that is used to relay data back to driver or pits must be included in the cost report. If no live feedback is provided, then it does not need to be included in the cost report.

NOTE: All instrumentation must be included in the cost report.


Might need some clarification on that one 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnfar109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/05/2015 at 10:08am
Originally posted by IM31408 IM31408 wrote:

Quote

NOTE: Instrumentation that is used to relay data back to driver or pits must be included in the cost report. If no live feedback is provided, then it does not need to be included in the cost report.

NOTE: All instrumentation must be included in the cost report.


Might need some clarification on that one 

Where did you Find that in the 2016 Rules? It is Part of the 2015 Rules under B3.2.2 but was removed and replaced with B3.7 Instrumentation and Data Acquisition for 2016
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IM31408 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/05/2015 at 2:52pm
Originally posted by johnfar109 johnfar109 wrote:

Where did you Find that in the 2016 Rules? It is Part of the 2015 Rules under B3.2.2 but was removed and replaced with B3.7 Instrumentation and Data Acquisition for 2016

Oops. Looks like I was looking at 2015 rules instead. 

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FOR 2017 A NEW BRIGGS AND STRATTON ENGINE WILL BE

REQUIRED, PRIOR ENGINES WILL NOT BE ACCEPTABLE 


Anybody have any more info on this? Moving to a totally different engine or updating the current design?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frinesi2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/05/2015 at 4:35pm
I was wondering the same thing. If I had to place a bet, I would say it's a Model 20 with newer emissions-related parts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boss Sauce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/05/2015 at 7:57pm
On page two under the partial list of updates is says B8.6.3 Document Response updated. I was about to comment here about how I couldn't find it but I think I realized the typo. Is it is meant to be B8.7.3?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ljatkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2015 at 10:48pm
"B15.1 Powertrain Guards NEW
... that rotate at the rate of the drive axle(s) or faster...
Required Materials:
Made of at least AISI 1010 strength steel at least 1.5 mm (0.06 in) thick – 16 Gauge is allowed.
-OrMade
of at least 6061 -T6 strength aluminum at least 3.0 mm (0.12 in) thick"

So we need to have that guarding around our gears? Looks like this rule is going to add a few pounds to everyone's drivetrain...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richie_Dagger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 1:22am
Originally posted by ljatkins ljatkins wrote:

"B15.1 Powertrain Guards NEW
... that rotate at the rate of the drive axle(s) or faster...
Required Materials:
Made of at least AISI 1010 strength steel at least 1.5 mm (0.06 in) thick – 16 Gauge is allowed.
-OrMade
of at least 6061 -T6 strength aluminum at least 3.0 mm (0.12 in) thick"

So we need to have that guarding around our gears? Looks like this rule is going to add a few pounds to everyone's drivetrain...

Gears have always had to be guarded. You don't run them in open air do you?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rasmuet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 8:29am
I didn't pull up the rule book to see what changed but the thickness for aluminum guarding for your powertrain has always been .120" (last 4 years at least).  Take a few pounds out of your gears or the rest of your car and you'll make up for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ljatkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 11:48am
I guess it has been overlooked by us and the tech inspectors in the past, we have been running a plastic center section for about 4 years now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rasmuet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 11:56am
The material and thickness requirement for guarding is only around the periferals of the gears.  You can have guarding on the sides that is plastic as long as it meets the finger protection rules.  You've had your gears covered by something other than steel or aluminum and it has passed tech?
 
The rule change I believe is primarily looking at the use of completely carbon fiber or composite CVT covers that have not had the steel or aluminum guarding the clutches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ljatkins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 12:11pm
Yes, like i said before we have had a plastic center section. I have now looked at past years rules and we have just overlooked it. I'm surprised we got thru tech with it. I understand having the rule for the cvt, throwing a weight could definitely be dangerous. But for the gears i think that is overbuilt... If you compare a failing gear to a cvt throwing a weight, the gear is much easier to stop. I don't even think most atv's have a transmission housing that strong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bettner12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 5:27pm
Rules are down, think they are making changes?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kruegdr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 7:06pm
Negative. I was able to access them just fine.
https://www.bajasae.net/content/2016_BAJA_Rules_Final-9.8.15.pdf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IM31408 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 7:16pm
Link on the BajaSAE page isn't working but the direct link seems to be fine. 404 link is trying to direct me to a PDF dated 9.4.16. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bettner12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2015 at 7:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drvr5 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2015 at 12:22am
Originally posted by ljatkins ljatkins wrote:

Yes, like i said before we have had a plastic center section. I have now looked at past years rules and we have just overlooked it. I'm surprised we got thru tech with it. I understand having the rule for the cvt, throwing a weight could definitely be dangerous. But for the gears i think that is overbuilt... If you compare a failing gear to a cvt throwing a weight, the gear is much easier to stop. I don't even think most atv's have a transmission housing that strong.
It's not easy to machine aluminum to less than .125" thickness, and nearly impossible to cast it that thin without severe distortion. I agree with you that it is overbuilt for the failure mechanism that gears have, but the performance impact to teams is negligible. It is far simpler for the techs to enforce the rule as it is written than to have exceptions, valid or not. I doubt that any teams are running metal gearboxes that do not meet the rules for guarding, and if there are I would love to have a chat with their machinist to see how they combat chatter when machining.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpham32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2015 at 6:43pm
The rule C3.10 Duplicate Design how did everyone interpret "significant" changes to a previously entered vehicle? We are thinking about redesigning the rear clip and implement trailing arms instead of a-arms. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcooper273 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/10/2015 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by tpham32 tpham32 wrote:

The rule C3.10 Duplicate Design how did everyone interpret "significant" changes to a previously entered vehicle? We are thinking about redesigning the rear clip and implement trailing arms instead of a-arms. 

We did that on our car between 2014 and 2015. That is a significant enough change for the design judges.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpham32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/15/2015 at 7:38pm
Thanks!
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