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2010 Rules Clarification Topic

Printed From: Official Baja SAE Forums
Category: General
Forum Name: Design Discussion
Forum Description: Discuss Design, Tech, Cost, and related issues
URL: http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=302
Printed Date: Dec/06/2021 at 6:09pm


Topic: 2010 Rules Clarification Topic
Posted By: jeiB
Subject: 2010 Rules Clarification Topic
Date Posted: Jan/19/2010 at 2:20pm
Hey everyone,

Since we are getting near competitions, people are going to have more questions about rules and I thought I would create a topic about rules in general. I emailed the rules commitee and they havent gotten back to me yet, so hopefully we can help each other much faster. Everyone can post questions here otherwise i will edit it to contain only my questions.

33.3.1 Lap & Anti-Submarine Belts
-The lap belt must pass around the pelvic area below the Anterior Superior Iliac Spines (the hip bones) (Figure 9). Under no condition may the lap belt be worn over the area of the intestines or abdomen. The lap belts should come through the seat at the bottom of the sides of the seat to maximize the wrap of the pelvic surface and continue in a straight line to the anchorage point. In side view, the lap belt must be at an angle of between 45 degrees and 65 degrees to the horizontal. This means that the centerline of the lap belt at the seat bottom should be approximately 76 mm (3 inches) forward of the seat back to seat bottom junction (see Figure 5). To fit drivers of differing statures correctly, in side view, the lap / anti-submarine belts must be capable of pivoting freely by using either a shouldered bolt or an eye bolt attachment. Mounting lap belts by wrapping them around frame tubes is no longer acceptable. The lap belts should not be routed over the sides of the seat.

The underlined portions are what puzzle me. What happens if your seat design is such that you cant have belts go throught the seat. Im suspecting this rule is made to prevent belts rubbing on the seat.

Thanks


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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing
2009-2011 Captain
minibaja.mcgill.ca



Replies:
Posted By: Red_Beard
Date Posted: Jan/19/2010 at 2:32pm
As long as they don't rub you'll be fine


Posted By: jeiB
Date Posted: Jan/19/2010 at 2:34pm
thats what i thought, thanks



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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing
2009-2011 Captain
minibaja.mcgill.ca


Posted By: asims
Date Posted: Jan/19/2010 at 8:34pm
Last year we read "should" as a strong suggestion, and "must" as a requirement.  Our belts went over the side of the seat, but properly tightened, there was no rubbing.  We didn't have any issues with it at tech.

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Andrew Sims
University of Arizona


Posted By: DrewT
Date Posted: Jan/20/2010 at 2:15am
I think the most critical thing is that the seat can't reroute the belt.  As long as the belt goes straight from the mount to the driver's body without touching the seat, I think it should be ok.

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WWU Baja SAE team captain 2009-10
NC Process Engineer - Janicki Industries


Posted By: asims
Date Posted: Jan/20/2010 at 7:09pm
This got brought up in another thread, so I'll go ahead and add it here for the sake of completeness.  This is an email I sent last year and the response I got.

Quote Regarding rule 32.6 Leg and Foot Shielding, what is considered a "steering or suspension link" for the purpose of this rule?  For example, do universal joints on the steering shaft need to be shielded, or is it only necessary to cover the actual tie rod and associated joints where they are within the cockpit.  They way I read it, this rule is intended to prevent entanglement with the joints with a direct connection to the suspension (i.e. tie rod ends) because they are likely to be moving rapidly and with significant force and may present pinch point risks.  The universal joints on the other hand will only be rotating a couple of revolutions maximum, and don't pose much entanglement/pinching risk.

Any clarification you can offer would be appreciated.


Quote 2/23/09

The intent of this rule is to support egress from the cockpit. The primary linkage we're concerned about is the tie rods, however sometimes a closer look must be taken at the steering shaft, or if a team has an unconventional suspension setup with linkages in the cockpit area. Generally teams pad the steering shaft, but it is not something that typically is a problem in baja.

Basically there are no set rules on the exact linkages that we check, but we do check to see that you can exit the cockpit without getting caught. If it so happens to be on your universal joint, we may require that you make modifications. This is really something we have to have a look at during tech inspection.


Thanks for your question,

Darrell Krueger
BajaSAE Technical Inspector



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Andrew Sims
University of Arizona


Posted By: Baja_Cgp_Sherbrooke
Date Posted: Jan/31/2010 at 7:45pm
As stated in the 2010 rules:
 
"Only foot operated throttle controls are allowed. A wide-open throttle stop must be mounted at the pedal. Mechanical, hydraulic or other throttle controls must be designed to return to idle-stop in the event of a failure. Throttle cable cannot be bare from the forward mounting point to the firewall. Foot pedal must be positioned so as to avoid foot entrapment in any position."
 
Does this means I can use my own throttle linkage or I must use the "official" Briggs throttle kit?
 
Thanks again!


Posted By: DrewT
Date Posted: Jan/31/2010 at 9:23pm
Pretty sure you can use whatever throttle setup you can come up with.  It just has to meet the requirements of the rule that it's foot operated and allows the engine to return to idle.  We've used a bicycle cable and fabricated throttle pedal and a little fabricated aluminum block that mounts to the Briggs engine at the other end of the cable.  An additional throttle return spring makes sure it returns to an idle in the event of a cable breakage or if the driver takes their foot off

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WWU Baja SAE team captain 2009-10
NC Process Engineer - Janicki Industries


Posted By: johnpate01
Date Posted: Jan/31/2010 at 9:41pm
We use that little brass engine throttle thing that Briggs has and we just make our throttle system  interface with that.  That way there is no way that they can say anything about it.  That said, I don't think there's anything about it in the rules.  Better safe than sorry, though.

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-John

Co-Captain, Team Tennessee 2008-2010


Posted By: charles ulaval
Date Posted: Feb/01/2010 at 11:16pm
Seems like the brake light doesn't have to meet the SAE J586 rule like the past years...

22.4 Brake Light
The vehicle must be equipped with a red brake light that is mounted such that the light shines parallel to the ground, not up at an angle. The brake light must be mounted at a minimum of 1 meter (39.4 in) off of the ground, generally between half and the top third of the height of the firewall. The determination of whether or not a brake light meets the required standards rests with the National Technical Inspectors.

What do you guys think of that?


Posted By: asims
Date Posted: Feb/01/2010 at 11:28pm
Haha, we were happy about it when we saw it because we've had trouble finding a qualifying light in the past, but it turns out the light we bought for this year meets the standard anyways.

Makes me wonder what the motivation is, especially since reverse lights still have to meet the relevant standards.


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Andrew Sims
University of Arizona


Posted By: Rob71zilla
Date Posted: Feb/02/2010 at 9:39am
We went through 3 lights at RIT in 07 before be found one that passed and we have held onto it ever since.  Maybe they finally realized those lights are hard to find and the rule is dumb anyway.
 
The reverse light thing is still puzzling though...


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Robbie
Former Team Captain
SUNY Institute of Technology
Current Engineer for Remington Arms

A Redline a day keeps the carbon away.


Posted By: Karan
Date Posted: Mar/01/2010 at 3:13am
i would like to know if the two thread exposure rule(for all fastners) includes ball joints used to mount the suspension arms to the steering knuckle... 


Posted By: asims
Date Posted: Mar/01/2010 at 9:10pm
I would say it applies to any and all threaded fasteners.  If you don't have enough thread to meet the rule, you might be able to get a castle nut and cotter pin to work, assuming there's at least enough room to drill a hole.


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Andrew Sims
University of Arizona


Posted By: jeiB
Date Posted: Sep/07/2010 at 10:22pm
God, finally found this thread again...

B3.5 Brake Light Switch
Each independent brake hydraulic system must be equipped with a brake light switch, so that no brake, including cutting brakes may be activated without lighting the brake light.

I guess that means two brake light switchs

Also they changed the brake light rule back to requiring a SAE rating on the brake light.





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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing
2009-2011 Captain
minibaja.mcgill.ca



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