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keeleybaja View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keeleybaja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New team
    Posted: Sep/20/2011 at 12:03am

hello my name is Kelly and im third year student of  mechanical engineering in the community college in laredo TX

I have begun to organize the Baja SAE chapter at my university with some girls, but the university wants to see progress to support us, so we started building our chassis

but we need some parts to be able to build our first prototype (we do not expect that this prototype is to compete but we need to show real progress Wink)

I read the topic of cvt and for my  understanding for  teams that  are beginning the best choice is a comet cvt 790, but we dont have  enough money to buy a brand new  so I want to know if any team could sell one of these CVTs

I also read that  Fox shocks supports  Baja SAE teams
 what i have to do to apply for the  support?
or some team have fox floats to sell or something like that?

thank you very much

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LukeS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/20/2011 at 1:42am
Before you get started on the frame make sure you are doing what your faculty wants.  Last year was our first year competing.  It took three years to pull a proper team together and turn around our program.  Personally I think you need to build a strong foundation to have a successful program and a prototype isn't a strong foundation.

When we started out, we did a lot of planning.  You need to list exactly what components you will use in your project.  In order to build the list you will have to do a lot of research (it sounds like you've started which is good).  I know its not what this competition is about but its always a safe bet to watch what others are doing and use that as a baseline.  Once you have this list start constructing a budget.  Overshoot your projections and plan to spend more then you actually will in the end.

If possible try to design as much of the car as you can in CAD.  From there you will know exactly what your up against and you have to ask yourself two key questions.  Where will the car be built and how will it be paid for?  If you can convince your school to provide space make sure you can get a lot of access to that space.  You will have a hard time building the car on an 8 hour day.  Last year we were spending 18-20 hour days in our shop the month before competition.  If your school isn't willing to pay for the entire project (which is highly likely) you will have to come up with some kind of sponsorship proposal.

I almost forgot.  After you put together the spec sheet for your car you need a build schedule.  This is key.  Plan extra time!  We planned an extra month and finished our car on the way to competition.  Below is a link to our sponsorship page.  Our budget, sponsorship proposal and timeline for the 2011 season is all on there.
http://www.cougar-racing.com/?page_id=3

2011 was our first year.  Like I said it took us 3 years to get to this point.  Hopefully this helps you cut down that time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/20/2011 at 1:04pm
Adding onto what luke said, I would buy as many items used as possible. Anything from wheels,tires, knuckles, A-arms, gearbox etc. used off ebay. Building a frame around existing components will simply things tremendously, aka quick progress. After you get a running vehicle then you can go back and possibly make your own components for whatever reason your team decides upon.
 
Fox shocks are very nice but pricey. Again finding used coil-overs off a quad would save yah a bunch of money
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote patwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2011 at 8:53am
Our team has been going for the last 20 years, but I know the first few years were extremely basic. As Erik says, lots of stock parts are your friend. I am sure you can get a lot more than you think out of sponsors (I know we do, our school isn't very funding-oriented) even though the team is young.
 
CAD is key! The more you draw, the less surprises you get when it comes to building. Our team uses custom shocks that we make ourselves, we save a ton of money off the Fox and still manage to work miracles in manoeuvers Wink
 
Good luck to you all!
Pat Ken Dubois
Sherbrooke Racing Team
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keeleybaja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2011 at 6:38pm
thanks but the advices but we have already bought  wheels, tires  gearbox, and calipers, (used parts :b ) and we start  our first desing
but the gearbox use a comet 790, but the man that sold us the box dont have already the cvt

we want to bought a comet 790 if some team have one, and want to sell us please  contac me

 by the way this is our first prototype...and some cad pictures of some components that already have ( exept the shocks jaja)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2011 at 6:53pm
I'm jealous of that first year prototype! Good work
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2011 at 8:12pm
If you can afford it, take the team to a competition.  At least an invitational if not a full blown competition.

Find one of the team that is traditionally competitive then ask lots and lots of questions.  We traveled to Ocala in '07 after our young team wasn't able to complete the modifications to the previous years car.  We took a ton of pictures and video, and talked to a lot of people on competitive teams.  The things we saw and learned play a role in choosing our designs in '08.

I feel like the project management portion of the competition is just as important, if not more, than the engineering/fabrication side.  If you can't secure funding to build the car, it doesn't matter how sweet your design is.  If you can't secure transportation and travel to get to competition, once again it doesn't matter how awesome your car is.


Edited by dillon_b12 - Sep/21/2011 at 9:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collinskl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/22/2011 at 8:51am
Are your front knuckles really going to be cantilevered down like that portal box style? Interesting...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeiB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/22/2011 at 9:27am
And I hope your side tubes for your roll cage are continuous...they dont seem to have a bend, only a cut and weld (not allowed by the rules)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucasbajaufabc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2011 at 8:22pm
Hello, it is my first post here.

My name is Lucas Schmitt, and me and some colegues are also starting a new team in our institute. 
We expect to participate on our first oficial competition in Agoust 2012.

We are from Brazil! And managed to get some sponsors already http://bajaufabc.com.br/
As you said we tried to buy as many use parts as possible so our draws would be better. 

And many hours were spent analysing other teams cars, and as first draw we managed to this: 
What do you think? As viewed in other thread brazilian cars have shorter wheel base...

Thanks! Its a pleasure to participate of this!Baja Ufabc


Edited by lucasbajaufabc - Oct/17/2011 at 8:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collinskl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2011 at 9:34pm
My first question is where is the rest of your frame?  Mainly the back half.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soccerdan7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/17/2011 at 11:44pm
Compared to FEI they are only missing about 2 bent bars, but thats what you get with a stressed gearbox, stressed engine and front braced car... I am guessing that hasn't been a priority yet.

What kind of drivetrain are you planning to use and how much thought has gone into designing that swingarm? It looks like a good first attempt to hammer out some basic things but there is a lot you can still work out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucasbajaufabc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2011 at 7:37am
The car is only half design, motor compartment, transmission and rear suspension were not touch yet.
They are there just to see the basics and space. 

Our motor is coming so we are waiting to draw the back end properly. 

We have worked on ergonomy and steering geometry 

The plans are to use depedant rear suspension with solid axle and not swingarm;
Just because it is simplier and have less parts to be made, and less parts to break as is our first year we were told to keep it simple

We will use Comet CVT 780 as transmission.

Soccerdan7, engine and gearbox are not structural parts. So i dont think they will be stressed....




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soccerdan7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2011 at 9:04am
I realize that you didn't intend to have a structural drivetrain which is a good idea not have as a first year team. I was simply making a joke that you had almost the whole frame by FEI or UMBC's standards.

We also design the front frame first which is primarily set off of our front suspension geometry. Make sure that when you design the specifics of the rear suspension you tweak the front as needed. They are very much not independent and you should pay a lot of attention to your roll center axis and other important links front to rear for a car with nice handling.

The comet is a fine way to go. We have used the Comet, Polaris, CVTech, and a modified CVTech-Polaris combo. All of them can be tuned well and the Comet is nice and simple. I would also consider the CVTech since it is simple, cheap and a good performer as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2011 at 11:36am
Originally posted by lucasbajaufabc lucasbajaufabc wrote:

We have worked on ergonomy and steering geometry 


That car looks incredibly uncomfortable.  It looks like the knees are nearly touching both the SIM and the steering wheel.  I realize the Brazilians build smaller cars, but this looks like it would cripple you after a 4-hour endurance race.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frinesi2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/18/2011 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by Soccerdan7 Soccerdan7 wrote:

I realize that you didn't intend to have a structural drivetrain which is a good idea not have as a first year team. I was simply making a joke that you had almost the whole frame by FEI or UMBC's standards.


Yeah, well, we have to make up for the weight of the roll cage padding somewhere LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote justin_6649 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/28/2011 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by jeiB jeiB wrote:

And I hope your side tubes for your roll cage are continuous...they dont seem to have a bend, only a cut and weld (not allowed by the rules)



sorry for the thread jack but i have a question with regards to this...

are you referring to rule b8.3.5? i was hoping to update our schools old frame but i think this may now pose a problem. the frame has no fbm's but the sim's are indeed in two pieces.

thanks for the help, i can post a picture later if needed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucasbajaufabc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/23/2011 at 6:55pm
Thanks for your reply, we are still working on the model. 

Searching on the web came up one doubt on my mind.
I searched in this forum many times but could not find any thing.

May be a noob question but here it goes:

When using CVT i also have to use clutch? 

I mean even in the smallest reduction the wheels will keep turning. 
Or the cvt has some centrifugal clutch already??

sorry for so basic question...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LukeS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/23/2011 at 8:30pm
When setup properly, the CVT reaches a point where the belt is loose and slips.  At this point the car will not move.  As the engine speed increases, the sheaves pull closer and begin grabbing the belt.

It sounds like you need to do a bit more research on CVT's.  How you setup your CVT is extremely important.


Edited by LukeS - Nov/23/2011 at 8:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pedro UFPBaja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2011 at 2:01am
It depends on the configuration of the transmission system.
If your system has only one reduction  after the CVT will not need a clutch.
If you have more than one speed after the CVT, like low+high+reverse, will only can change when the car is stopped if don't have clutch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucasbajaufabc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/24/2011 at 6:25am
Thanks, now i get it! 
We pretend to do only one reduction...

Pedro UFPBaja your site has been very usefull for us, many important things we have found there, congratulations for such work

and for any other stupid question i will be back Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucasbajaufabc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/26/2013 at 11:13pm
So i am back!

Our first car is alive! Two years after first brainstorm we finished our baja and competed in Baja Sae Brazil!! Like us on facebook: fb.com/bajaufabc


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2013 at 5:15pm
Lucas how did the rear end of the car hold up in the brazil race?
Makes us feel over build by a few miles, our car might possibly weigh 100 more lbs than that....
 
Kelly as far as the Orginal thread was started, This is our 12th year as a community college racing in the series. This is our 6th frame, and we have learned and forgotten lots over the years.  Its very hard at the 2 year school level. I suggest buying lots of parts, and go from there. We make most of our stuff, and its very hard to do with such new members.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lucasbajaufabc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/12/2013 at 6:41pm
Rich was pretty solid...
Held up some pretty bad obstacles... 
Our only problem was the left axle, after a rollover it bent a little... we are going to change the material for our next race

our final height was 177kg... 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lohith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2017 at 3:35pm
Lucas does your car tyre tilt when taking a turn as shown in your profile pic??
If so how did you achieve it??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RLM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/31/2017 at 8:09am
Camber Gain while cornering is achieved through Suspension geometry design, please read racecar vehicle dynamics by Milliken.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2017 at 6:42pm
I'm going to be extra nice today... CASTER. Caster combined with kingpin inclination will cause the tires to "tilt" during turning. Most cars have body roll toward the outside of the turn, and they don't have a lot of camber gain. That means the tires end up straight up and down during corners - rather than "tilted" out of the corner (if they had no caster). Caster also affects steering forces - a lot.

Side note after this thread has been dug up from the dead - we used a very similar design of knuckle for the 2015-16 season. This thread was from 2012-2013.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote samgar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/28/2018 at 6:07am
Please help us..!
What are the steps to go to competition?
I mean the steps to register the team and what needs to have the captain, the membership or how?

Greetings from Venezuela.
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please review the official rule book, Section A, Article 6 on the registration process
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OmarF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2018 at 8:36am
hi guys!
 
I am part of a new team that wants to participate in baja SAE, it wolud be awesome if you could give me any recommendation in the chassis design, this is what we got so far:
uploads/4746/Screenshot_1.png
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/08/2018 at 8:58am
Hey!

First off, welcome to BAJA! It's great that you want to participate at BAJA SAE, the experience is incomparable. 

Coming to your query, it would be better if you could ask really specific questions related to chassis design or any subsystem after doing some research yourself. To be honest, "any recommendations" will generally give you "no recommendations". 

For some reason, I also cannot access the image you uploaded. 
Cheers! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OmarF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2018 at 6:55pm
Thanks for replying!, being more specific, how good or how bad do you see the geometry of the chassis?, and do you think that this structure distributes the road and impact forces in a good way throughout the whole chassis?
Thanks for your attention!!
 


http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/uploads/4746/Screenshot_2.png 
http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/uploads/4746/Screenshot_1.png 
http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/uploads/4746/Screenshot_3.png 


Edited by OmarF - Jun/11/2018 at 7:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/12/2018 at 4:19am
My first reaction to the images would be that the rollcage design looks similar to any other BAJA rollcage designs that you see. But using terms like "how good", "how bad", "good way" etc. will not tell you much about your design. I recommend you come up with quantifiable terms which would help you really assess the tips and tops of your design. 

Coming to "force distribution" in your rollcage, one cannot look at an image and decide on that. I recommend (if its not already recommended) you do a CAE analysis of your rollcage. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OmarF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2018 at 12:10am
One more question, is there a recommended software besides SolidWorks to model and see the behavior of the suspension mechanism?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sujandinesh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2018 at 3:11am
A lot of teams use CATIA, UGNX etc. for modelling almost everything in BAJA. Coming to behavior (kinematic and dynamic), Adams is quite popular especially in the vehicle dynamics community. 

But you can find a lot more if you just search this forum and read some BAJA design reports. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OmarF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2018 at 6:32am
Thanks a lot for your help!!
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