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My own upright

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sasikumarveluchamy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2015 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by kcooper273 kcooper273 wrote:

Originally posted by sasikumarveluchamy sasikumarveluchamy wrote:

Originally posted by Soccerdan7 Soccerdan7 wrote:

In case what I wrote was confusing, here is a picture from testing before polishing.
uploads/473/396460_10150481052565286_895736632_n.jpg


Meanwhile, What is the material used for the hub in this image ? Nylon kind of stuff ?

Yes that is definitely nylon.

Thanks kcooper...

Also, with the spindle offset in the front upright, its obvious that we are increasing the ground clearance for the same static inclination of the front suspension arms. But i would like to know is there any other advantage other than the one which i mentioned above for the offset ? Throw me some light on this..

I also want to add this point to your signature line, that it is very much racist of you. I accept that some irritate with their stupid questions from India, but that doesn't make everyone is noob here. We do build best ATV's with proper engineering design.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richie_Dagger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2015 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by sasikumarveluchamy sasikumarveluchamy wrote:

I also want to add this point to your signature line, that it is very much racist of you. I accept that some irritate with their stupid questions from India, but that doesn't make everyone is noob here. We do build best ATV's with proper engineering design.
Just because it is offensive doesn't mean it's racist...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kcooper273 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/30/2015 at 7:23pm
Originally posted by sasikumarveluchamy sasikumarveluchamy wrote:

I also want to add this point to your signature line, that it is very much racist of you. I accept that some irritate with their stupid questions from India, but that doesn't make everyone is noob here. We do build best ATV's with proper engineering design.

Better not read this thread then.....

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sasikumarveluchamy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/01/2015 at 11:20am
Originally posted by Richie_Dagger Richie_Dagger wrote:

Originally posted by sasikumarveluchamy sasikumarveluchamy wrote:

I also want to add this point to your signature line, that it is very much racist of you. I accept that some irritate with their stupid questions from India, but that doesn't make everyone is noob here. We do build best ATV's with proper engineering design.
Just because it is offensive doesn't mean it's racist...

uploads/828/racist.jpg


Yeah, very offensive !! 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/01/2015 at 11:30am
Originally posted by kcooper273 kcooper273 wrote:

Originally posted by sasikumarveluchamy sasikumarveluchamy wrote:

I also want to add this point to your signature line, that it is very much racist of you. I accept that some irritate with their stupid questions from India, but that doesn't make everyone is noob here. We do build best ATV's with proper engineering design.

Better not read this thread then.....

http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/material-for--panels-and-availability-in-india_topic2244. - http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/material-for-body-panels-and-availability-in-india_topic2244.html

I admit, that was a very stupid question to ask in a forum !! Even in Indian forums we get such kind of stupid questions... anyhow tat was offensive..

Let's come to the knuckle spindle offset topic now.. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FelixB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/03/2015 at 10:04am
might want to take a better look at that upright then...

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sasikumarveluchamy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/07/2015 at 1:40pm
Originally posted by FelixB FelixB wrote:

might want to take a better look at that upright then...




This kind of spindle off-set, i was mentioning about..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RLM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/07/2015 at 2:01pm
TH advantages with this particular placement of the spindle in relation with the kingpin and lower ball joint could be any number of things as it depends on the rest of the front suspension geometry. You cant look at just one aspect and ask what the advantage is, you have to consider the entire system as a whole. 

For example, their desired ground clearance, travel, and anti features, as well as camber gain over travel could have dictated the upper and lower ball joint placement and then the spindle was put there to optimize camber gain while steering. I don't know. Was it put there for specific bump steer characteristics? Again, I don't know.

Your best bet is to decide what characteristics you want your front suspension to have (based on what dynamic characteristics you want your vehicle to have, and then put these into a computer program such as ADAMS, Lotus, or even just analyse in Solidworks. you will likely find that everything will more or less position itself, and need only minor adjustment to deal with compromises you will inevitably have to make. 

The long and the short of it is, They put it there likely due to their geometry and not to increase ground clearance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/08/2015 at 5:58am
Originally posted by RLM RLM wrote:

TH advantages with this particular placement of the spindle in relation with the kingpin and lower ball joint could be any number of things as it depends on the rest of the front suspension geometry. You cant look at just one aspect and ask what the advantage is, you have to consider the entire system as a whole. 

For example, their desired ground clearance, travel, and anti features, as well as camber gain over travel could have dictated the upper and lower ball joint placement and then the spindle was put there to optimize camber gain while steering. I don't know. Was it put there for specific bump steer characteristics? Again, I don't know.

Your best bet is to decide what characteristics you want your front suspension to have (based on what dynamic characteristics you want your vehicle to have, and then put these into a computer program such as ADAMS, Lotus, or even just analyse in Solidworks. you will likely find that everything will more or less position itself, and need only minor adjustment to deal with compromises you will inevitably have to make. 

The long and the short of it is, They put it there likely due to their geometry and not to increase ground clearance.

Thanks RLM

I'm afraid that we can achieve the same suspension geometry and the anti features even without the spindle off-set, physically the only thing we are getting by the making the off-set is the reduction of the distance between the upper and lower suspension pivot points and the distance of the lower arm from the ground, which apparently increases the ground clearance. 

Also, if we look at the RC in the front , it depends mainly on the static inclination of the arms. I don't think the off-set has significance with the camber gain, bump steer and wheel travel. So, the important point in this off-set is decreasing the static inclination of the arms with the same ground clearance, thereby decreasing the RC center height in the front, making a forward slope of the roll axis and makes the vehicle oversteer. Correct me, if i'm wrong.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Richie_Dagger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/09/2015 at 4:40am
Originally posted by sasikumarveluchamy sasikumarveluchamy wrote:

Originally posted by RLM RLM wrote:

TH advantages with this particular placement of the spindle in relation with the kingpin and lower ball joint could be any number of things as it depends on the rest of the front suspension geometry. You cant look at just one aspect and ask what the advantage is, you have to consider the entire system as a whole. 

For example, their desired ground clearance, travel, and anti features, as well as camber gain over travel could have dictated the upper and lower ball joint placement and then the spindle was put there to optimize camber gain while steering. I don't know. Was it put there for specific bump steer characteristics? Again, I don't know.

Your best bet is to decide what characteristics you want your front suspension to have (based on what dynamic characteristics you want your vehicle to have, and then put these into a computer program such as ADAMS, Lotus, or even just analyse in Solidworks. you will likely find that everything will more or less position itself, and need only minor adjustment to deal with compromises you will inevitably have to make. 

The long and the short of it is, They put it there likely due to their geometry and not to increase ground clearance.

Thanks RLM

I'm afraid that we can achieve the same suspension geometry and the anti features even without the spindle off-set, physically the only thing we are getting by the making the off-set is the reduction of the distance between the upper and lower suspension pivot points and the distance of the lower arm from the ground, which apparently increases the ground clearance. 

Also, if we look at the RC in the front , it depends mainly on the static inclination of the arms. I don't think the off-set has significance with the camber gain, bump steer and wheel travel. So, the important point in this off-set is decreasing the static inclination of the arms with the same ground clearance, thereby decreasing the RC center height in the front, making a forward slope of the roll axis and makes the vehicle oversteer. Correct me, if i'm wrong.





Sounds about right. Note that the trail is decreased with the setup you pictured though. We ran a spindle last year that had the lower ball joint level with the front axle. Was nice having the extra ground clearance under the a-arms. I don't thin we ever hit anything with them. The year before we had typical style spindle and lower shock mounts that went under the a-arm by about an inch. We kept smashing the sh*t out of them and bending them up before welding little skid plates to them during the El Paso race...

This design will probably change your wheel travel capabilities. Depends on a lot of things but we were able to get a ton more droop with this setup without sacrificing any bump, even though our spherical bearings had less misalignment than our old ball joint setup.


Edited by Richie_Dagger - Aug/09/2015 at 4:44am
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sasikumarveluchamy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/11/2015 at 11:39am
Thanks Richie..

It definitely changes the wheel travel characteristics. Thanks a lot for enlightening me on the droop travel. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ayushman123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2015 at 6:58am
The press fit is to be made b/w the aluminium upright and spindle,,,  but my question is that the spindle will also play the role of stub axle and it will have threads on the outer end so that tightening force can be beared by the fit or something else has to be done like restricting the rotating dof of the spindle.????? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RLM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2015 at 8:18am

what you have described, is a fixed spindle pressed into the upright. in this setup, you then have your bearings between your hub and the spindle which take the rotational force. This means that with an appropriate press fit, you should not need an additional device to restrict the rotation of the spindle. the greatest torque that the spindle will experience will be the tightening of the wheel nut, which shouldn't be enough to rotate a good press fit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/26/2015 at 12:52pm
Also, the lateral motion of the hub, bearing and the rotor will be arrested in the wheel assembly, so there is no chance for the motion of the spindle, provided the press fit is fine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sasikumarveluchamy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/01/2015 at 1:05pm
hey guys...i just got a doubt with the steering arm length...with the spindle being offset from the wheel centre... is the steering arm length is measured from the suspension arms mounting points in the knuckle to the tie rod outer ball joint point..? or it is measured from the wheel centre to the tie rod outer ball joint point ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FelixB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/06/2015 at 10:21am
not sure what your question is but if you're referring to the geometry it's always from the pivot point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pvbhala Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2019 at 1:17pm
We have designed an upright with an offset this year and achieved desirable properties like camber change in bump and steer, minimized bump steer etc.

But during force analysis of the upright, due to the offset an extra moment is being generated on the upright which is leading to higher stress values (still within the permissible limit) and the reaction forces at the upper and lower ball joints have increased tremendously, which i guess will eventually result in the failure of wishbones. 

I calculated reaction forces using ansys workbench by applying a remote force on the spindle point and giving proper boundary conditions to the ball joint points. (please correct me if i am wrong)

Did you guys face failure of wishbone due to the reason mentioned above? Need some help here...   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RLM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/12/2019 at 9:01am
failure will be dictated by the forces transfered to the respective components, as well as the design of the components themselves and the fatigue properties of the materials chosen. If you have calculated the loads correctly and sized your components accordingly, you should have no worries. best thing to do to be sure is to physically test and validate your model. 
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