2012 Auburn pics and results |
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zglazer
Baja Godfather Joined: May/27/2012 Location: Metro Detroit Status: Offline Points: 593 |
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Posted: Jun/13/2012 at 5:31pm |
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Everyone likes to do a bit of bragging now and then. No need to take it personally. Both of you guys' teams had great results at comp and I think it's enough to just leave it at that.
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Zack Glazer
McGill Baja Racing Alumnus 2009-2013 http://baja.mcgilleus.ca/ 2012-2013 Drivetrain Designer |
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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I did not mean that comment in any negative way. Several people said we were really fast in the beginning and I was just explaining what happened and where we projected we would have been. I don't think it is an ego thing as I rightfully acknowledged your guys achievements this year and am extremely proud of how we did as a team. There will always be what-if's but we are very happy with what did happen and will look to build on it for next year.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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tp
Welding Master Joined: Mar/31/2009 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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I have been racing a lot longer than just Baja and every racer makes excuses for why he or she didn't win. One of the reasons that your comment bugged me so much is anytime a racer started to point out reasons why they should have beat someone but didn't, it was their ego talking.
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-Tom
Oregon State BajaSAE Team Captain |
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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This is all a hand waving exercise and does not matter because you are right, we broke. We lost a lap to get frame teched on the rollover, we lost another 2 to replace the driveshaft and flat tire and make sure the rear suspension was ok and we lost at least 1 more in the last third of the race when our car was running terribly due to major engine issues with the rollover.
Wisconsin was a totally different story as our CVT was misbehaving the whole race and there was not much we could do about it since everything was on the tech sheet. It was the same setup as Auburn so should not have run so much slower but it did. Our driver did a great job just to keep up with the leaders with a substandard car and we are thrilled with the finish. We have no idea why the CVT was shifting so much differently but you can be sure we will figure it out for next year. That's what you get with racing and we are very pleased with our 1st and 3rd place finishes as this is now our most successful year in our short 8 year history. I was very impressed with Laval and OSU's cars this year as well and they are fully deserving of the other top finishes and awards. Congratulations guys.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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tp
Welding Master Joined: Mar/31/2009 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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This comment has been digging at me for the last couple weeks. Two reasons. First, you broke, so why even try to estimate how much you might have won by? Second, Wisconsin seemed to prove otherwise.
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-Tom
Oregon State BajaSAE Team Captain |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Yes, I saw it. Ann Arbor 2009 was basically the same setup but it had much smaller/lighter wheels (20in?) and what looked like a MUCH lighter axle. |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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You might like this. Akron U has a prototype 4-link solid axle, its impressive for a first attempt. I think if next year's team really worked on it this summer they would have something.
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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Only the best kind.... Our first lap we pulled about a minute and 30 seconds ahead but lost that due to the red flag stoppage and then catching up to the last cars which slowed us down greatly. We then proceeded to endo, shear a driveshaft, and get a flat tire and still finished on the lead lap (quite a ways behind OSU). We estimate we would have been about 4 laps ahead of everyone without those issues.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Probably rocket boosters made out of carbon fiber! |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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ErikHardy
Baja Godfather Joined: Apr/12/2010 Location: Hood, Flint, MI Status: Offline Points: 939 |
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Look at all this man drama haha. By my stopwatch at Auburn, Cornell was pulling roughly 30!! seconds a lap on the rest of the field during the beginning of the endurance race. Cornell either was cutting the track without nobody ever knowing, had rocket boosters, or have a very well put together team with dedication... I'm leaning towards rocket boosters!
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umbaja2009
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jan/18/2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Was just paging through and noticed the pic below. First off, great pic!! But....anyone know if the geometry in the front was setup to toe in during droop or what's up with the toed in tires? Just curious.
Thanks jeiB. I wanted to see what we could do without IRS. It was a fun car to have but with such a short prop shaft the angles of articulation for the CV joint were almost unmanageable. We ended up building our own version of the Cornay Joint but had issues keeping the needle bearings from breaking. |
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MBlake77
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jun/19/2011 Location: Baltimore, MD Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Hey schooter, thanks for the shoutout. This is our 8th year, so we've had some experience (mostly with fixing things...) but we don't allow grad students or have any advisor involvement so there's definitely quite a bit of learning that happens each year. Our core is mostly younger members, so watch out for them over the next couple years. Looking forward to seeing you all and competing in Wisconsin!
Also, congrats to Cornell on a great finish and car! |
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Matt Blake
Hopkins Baja Captain 2011-2012 |
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schooter
Organizer Joined: Feb/22/2010 Status: Offline Points: 224 |
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My thoughts too. Maybe it's some bump steer that only occurs in full droop. Which would be an alright place to hide a bunch of bump steer.
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Chase Schuette
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chaseschuette/ |
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FWBcut
Bolt Sorter Joined: Dec/22/2008 Location: Tampa Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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A few days behind but....
Mmm, not exactly. In '09 we stuck with the manual trans and went IRS. We changed the rear suspesion, to put it short, because no one thought we could do IRS. We did pretty well with it but we still saw greater advantages with a swingarm.
In '10 we wanted to try something new again, this time CVT. We went back to swing arm and had a decently fast car. Our scores never showed it because of chain issues at each race.
We didn't think our previous cars were outdated, so that didn't drive us to try new things.
I watched the lap of this years Auburn race and didn't see anything "new" that hasn't been in a baja track before. If I were to go baja again I'd still do a swing arm/manual trans car.
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Joe
U. of South Florida Baja captain 07-08 www.usfracing.com |
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steve o 77
Bolt Sorter Joined: Oct/02/2011 Location: Columbus, OH Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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that right there is some bump steer. Unless they had it set up like that at ride height which I doubt. |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Edited by Akron 1998 to 2004 - May/03/2012 at 6:01pm |
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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Again with the I. You do realize this is a team competition, don't you? Somebody should really help out the current Akron team if they are really the best all time because they keep showing up with similar designs and haven't won with it in how long? If that setup really is the holy grail, then you should help them get it back to winning ways rather than rant about how back in your day the car was so good it could have won without a team.
Edited by Soccerdan7 - May/03/2012 at 3:22pm |
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Funny that you mentioned this while I was packing the trailer to head down there. One of my vintage cars was used to setup Maneuverability / Suspension & Handling. I offered several times to run the Rock Crawl but they said it wouldn't be worth the damage. I naturally assumed they feared I'd smash it into a gravel parking lot.
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dillon_b12
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2008 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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As long as he is cool with people using his photos, you can get a high-res version from the album. 1.Click thumbnail. 2.Click picture to make bigger. 3.Click "View All Sizes" 4.Click "Original" 5.Right Click, select "Save As"
Edited by dillon_b12 - May/02/2012 at 11:41am |
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CLReedy21
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/30/2008 Location: Marysville, OH Status: Offline Points: 736 |
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The pics are courtesy Tony Marable who is a staff photographer at TTU. If you are interested in using them for anything or just want the hi-res versions you can get in touch with him at tmarable@tntech.edu he's a really cool guy who has been coming to races with us and shooting for years.
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-Chris Reedy
TTU Alumni Fourwheeler Drawer "Quick with the hammer, slow with the brain." |
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JeremyB
Organizer Last one standing Joined: Oct/13/2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Akron was a powerhouse at Midwest when I was in school*. At the same time, they were too chicken to come to the East (water) event, with the exception of 2004- where they placed a ho-hum 20th. [/turd in the punch bowl] *FYI, Graduated in '03. Started organizing races in '06, began tech. inspecting in '08, and helped create this forum. I've seen some things.
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paasch
Welding Master Joined: Feb/17/2009 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 234 |
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The Oregon organizers currently have the '08 OSU car for testing their event layouts. I'm pretty sure you could talk one of them into a little swingarm/IRS head-to-head. I'd suggest you start with the Rock Crawl. |
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Bob Paasch
Faculty Advisor Oregon State SAE |
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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Just to clarify, these are not my pictures or anyone from Cornell. I simply came across this guy's flickr when I was looking for pictures. He also has some from Birmingham 2011 and stuff as well.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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schooter
Organizer Joined: Feb/22/2010 Status: Offline Points: 224 |
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Was just paging through and noticed the pic below. First off, great pic!! But....anyone know if the geometry in the front was setup to toe in during droop or what's up with the toed in tires? Just curious. Congrats to everyone! Just bringing something to compete with is alone a achievement, let alone the outstanding performance of the top teams. I'd like to give a shout out to John Hopkins for making it into the top 10. If I'm not mistaken, they're a young team w/o years of design or experience to back them up. Way to go! |
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Chase Schuette
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chaseschuette/ |
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dillon_b12
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2008 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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It would be nice if some of these large pictures were re-sized a little before posting.
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njgedr
Welding Master Joined: Oct/05/2010 Location: Ortonville MI Status: Offline Points: 194 |
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Just found this pic in your album, great picture, it will probably end up on our website
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Rowan Baja 2009-2012
Auburn 09 Peoria 11 Epreuve Du Norde 12 Auburn 12 Wisconsin 12 Mubea Development Engineer |
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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To get this thread back on track, here is a nice photo album I stumbled on to from TTU's facebook.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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^ That. I don't come here and post to argue/fight. I want to share ideas and knowledge about this awesome opportunity that is Baja SAE. Edited by jeiB - May/01/2012 at 2:30pm |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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dillon_b12
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2008 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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It devolved into this because you are present in it. I don't mean to personally attack you, but it seems your primary agenda when joining this forum was to observe what current teams are doing, tell them how they are doing it wrong, and brag about how unbelievable you were/are. As someone that competed for a number of years, I'm sure you have a wealth of knowledge to contribute to this forum and community. Please, contribute in a meaningful way. What is the purpose of this whole competition if everyone is to build the same car?
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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Because you claimed something that you can't back up and every other successful team would beg to differ with. This is not an individual competition no matter how much you want to think it is.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Came close to doing that in 2004..........seriously, me and a few freshmen qualified to turn wrenches. One of them could weld better than me. I can honestly say that car was 90% me and I missed 1st overall by 4 points that yr. Believe it or not.
But seriously, how did this threads devolve into being about how good I am?
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AndyRIT
Organizer Joined: Nov/11/2008 Location: Sheboygan, WI Status: Offline Points: 193 |
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That is a very bold statement to make as there is over 30 years of baja history. |
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RIT Baja SAE Alumni 04'-09'
RIT Baja Team Manager 06'-08' 2010 RIT Track builder 2011 CAT/IL Comp Team Leader 2012 Wis vol 2013 RIT Track Builder Diesel Calibration Engineer-Kohler Engines |
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otto
Milling Master Joined: Oct/06/2011 Location: OR & Colorado Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Dr. Paasch - Thanks and good luck to you guys in Oregon this weekend. As was already said, doing well at competition is a team effort (regardless of size) and is a culmination of proper planning, but most importantly being ready for anything (we had our fair share of scares during endurance...). I'm looking forward to Wisconsin - the team turnout (and being the last competition of the year) looks like its going to lend itself to some healthy racing! p.s. If OSU baja has any work for a grad student for the next 2 years... you know where I'll be |
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Cornell Baja 2008-2012, suspension stuff
Oregon State 2012+, saw chain & some more baja |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Not you, your team might be, unless you designed, built, competed all on your own. |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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I didn't start this, wasn't even invovled in 3/4 of the trash talk.......................................Maybe not the best, but I'm easily in the top 3 all time!!!
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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+1 I think we should just leave it there and let Akron dream like its 1999.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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All this because we don't think swingarms are the SH*T... You certainly seem to think that you are the all time best... |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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Thats the problem with youngsters these days. A little success and they belive they're the all time best.
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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Oklahoma's success was due just as much if not more so to their low weight and tiny accel driver rather than their swingarm. Any decently tuned car that weighs 337 lbs with a Gaged CVT can win dynamics these days depending on luck and driver skill. Their car was very impressive and I don't mean to take anything away from their great result, I am just commenting on the differences in the modern competition that an old man like you may not realize.
Also, Oklahoma had the shiny red paint job and big fancy panels while we were minimalist for weight reasons and almost no red paint on the car. Our car was definitely the least aesthetically dominated this year compared to the other 4 cars I have been involved with. We took 2nd in design with a thoroughly engineered car with some innovative new features on it. Building a finished car that looks nice and sellable definitely helps in design presentations but we certainly do not treat it like a "beauty contest."
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Oh come on! They aren't gonna do a cross country trip and spend close to 8k just to race you. Akron, you are too entertaining. Edited by jeiB - May/01/2012 at 12:28pm |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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Akron 1998 to 2004
Welding Master Thread Hijack Champion Joined: Jan/20/2011 Location: WA Status: Offline Points: 327 |
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I see how you provoke me Danny. Yet you turned down my offer to go head to head against one of my “vintage” cars this Sunday at Washougal MX Park. Rather convenient that you failed to sign up for the west coast competition months before I issued the challenge. When the only car with the "vintage swingarm" in a sea of IRS vehicles wins maneuverability and dynamically out performs all the top 10 teams (except Cornell), I think you should take notice. Clearly the design judges underestimated Oklahoma, but the static portion of the competition is as much if not more so a beauty competition / popularity contest. Shiny red paint jobs on formed carbon fiber panels serve no function yet gather many points for completely unrelated systems (its human nature to appreciate aesthetics). Regardless, Cornell deservingly won……..this time!!! |
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dillon_b12
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2008 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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I know what you mean. Even in years where we had more than 5-7 guys around, it was still those 5-7 guys who did the vast majority of the work.
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Ahah, that's my new job too, Master Criticizer! |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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dillon_b12
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2008 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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Nope. Graduated in '10, but I only live about 1.5 miles from the shop so I stop in from time to time to annoy the current guys.
Edited by dillon_b12 - May/01/2012 at 12:19pm |
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Soccerdan7
Organizer Joined: Sep/22/2010 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 780 |
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That big of a team is a blessing and a curse. Once you get above like 10-15 people it becomes a project management nightmare for the leaders. Every year has a core of 5-10 people who design and build like 85% of the car. For every person outside of this core group who is good and reliable to get their stuff done, there is someone who produces inconsistent results, is not reliable and may disappear during pre-competition crunch time, knowing that other people will pick up their slack. I would greatly prefer about 15 people at times, but our huge team allows for things like a 5 person electrical team to do data acq and display stuff and a 5 person composites team to do all of our body, seat, steering wheel, guards, floors, etc which is nice. I have great respect for all of the teams with fewer than like 8 people because that requires real commitment and a hard work ethic from every person involved to create a successful car.
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Danny
Cornell (fall'07 - spring'12) Former Captain / MEng / that guy with all the carbon 10 races, 7 top ten's, 2 overall wins |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Dillon, do you still do baja? |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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dillon_b12
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2008 Status: Offline Points: 781 |
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I wish we had had even a third of that when I was still heavily involved. Our guys took 5th with 5 guys in Alabama this year. There are a few more working behinds the scene that didn't make it to comp., but I can't imagine what it must be like to have a crew of that size.
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OctoberSky
Welding Master Joined: May/20/2009 Location: Los Angeles Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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I think that the balance is pretty delicate between innovation, testing, and tuning. My biggest challenge as a designer hasn't been finding time to design and build with a month less of school than most universities, it's been trying to design components that are tunable, light/efficient enough to perform well, but also robust enough to last through a difficult tuning regiment and competition(s). Our best car was built for the 2010 races, and while I would never even think of going back to that design again, I know that as implemented it has outperformed the last two cars I've worked on. We will see what happens this week in Oregon with UCLA's newest model.
I, like Cornell, am often of the mindset that it is possible to "max out" a given design, and at some point I get bored with doing things the way they are, even if the new way isn't worked out perfectly. Last year, however, I realized just how frustrating it is to have a car with a lot of potential that "almost worked" due to problems during out testing phase, and we made a conscious effort to tone down the mad science a little bit in pursuit of higher placement across the board. Like I said, we will see what happens.
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UCLA Racing
2010-2012 Captain "we'll never win mini baja" -Cheddar |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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For example, I saw some videos from the Univ of Tennessee-Chattanooga. They came 10th overall, 11th in ST, 41st in Hill, 40th in Manuv, 61st in Accel, and 8th in Endurance. I don't want to bash their car but the dynamic scores show that it is far from a top performer and yet they finished 10th mainly due to their strong finish in endurance.
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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