2011 Cost Report Questions |
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Special Forces
Bolt Sorter Joined: Dec/01/2010 Location: Utica, NY Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Posted: Feb/21/2011 at 11:10am |
Got my confirmation at 9:47 AM EST today.
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Joe
SUNYIT Baja SAE President sunyitbaja.com |
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J.Cremer
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jun/09/2010 Location: Williamston, MI Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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I just got a confirmation email from SAE tonight.
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Kettering Baja
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Hop11
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jun/29/2010 Location: Baltimore, MD Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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We haven't gotten one either, I'd guess they won't get to that until sometime Monday since they were turned in late Friday.
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Hopkins Baja Captain '10-'11
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CLReedy21
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/30/2008 Location: Marysville, OH Status: Offline Points: 736 |
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We didn't either.
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-Chris Reedy
TTU Alumni Fourwheeler Drawer "Quick with the hammer, slow with the brain." |
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RonGeorge
Welding Master Joined: Apr/17/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Did you all get an email confirmation from SAE after submission of the cost report? We didn't and I wanted to know if everyone is on the same page.
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-Ron George
Systems Engineer (Cummins Turbo) |
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Hernan, You need to include the pdf. as well as the entire excel sheet.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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@kyle collins : we did the same thing in the cost report. i also got a answer from the baja rules committee regarding it. they say that we should fill fasteners time in case if we have left out a few fasteners.
Thanks alot! -rohan |
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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hseiliko
Bolt Sorter Joined: Feb/18/2011 Location: Argentina Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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We have a question about the cost report. Do we need to include in the .pdf file, the Costing Sheets (hole .xls report). Or if its just Cost Report Overview and Cost Report Documentation (included the scanned copy of the summary cost sheet with signature). Waiting for a response.. Thanks, Hernan
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Rohan, your McMaster screen shot looks good to me. I did a few like that in the past that were ok.
Also, if I remember correctly, I always assumed that the fasteners were included in the assembly time for each component. For example: If I used 16 bolts and nuts to attach my front suspension to the car, I would argue that the time to assemble those fasteners was included in my time to assemble the suspension...
Make sense?
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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Mod Squad
Welding Master Mutant Enforcer Joined: Oct/19/2010 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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Topic moved from the thread announcing the cost reports were up.
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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i meant Vehicle assembly cost about the fasteners. Really sorry for the mis-type.
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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CobraCommander
Milling Master Joined: Feb/03/2010 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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If you look at the summary page it doesn't allow for any time to be added for fasteners...
I can't really think of any case where you might need to perform any "assembly" on the fasteners before using them on the individual components... Maybe for custom fasteners? |
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COBRA Team Captain
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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Thanks alot. What procedure do we have to follow for Fastener assembly time? We are confused over this. Since for eg. Suspension Assembly time is basically assembling the suspension system, which includes fastening it to the frame. So basically we have already filled the fastener assembly time for the fasteners related to suspensions. So, what values do we have to fill for the fastener sections Sub assembly time?
Please correct me if i am going wrong about the assembly time data. thanks again
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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CobraCommander
Milling Master Joined: Feb/03/2010 Location: Ontario, Canada Status: Offline Points: 95 |
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The way I understand it there is sub-assembly labour for putting together individual parts of a sub-assembly together and vehicle assembly labour for putting that sub-assembly into the vehicle.
So for example we spent 20 minutes putting together our gearbox on the bench but then an additional 20 minutes to install it into the vehicle frame... The sub-assembly labour is listed on the Transmission Form A and the installation labour into the Transmission row of the summary. Edited by CobraCommander - Feb/17/2011 at 3:26pm |
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COBRA Team Captain
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rajeev
Bolt Sorter Joined: Feb/17/2011 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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What do we have to fill for Fastener Sub-system assembly time and fasteners vehicle assembly labour? Could someone please explain What is the difference between the two of them?
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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we are facing a few problems in assembly time costs.
eg. is there any relation between Subsystem Assembly Time (min) in the Engine A form and the Engine Vehicle assembly labor time in the Summary Cost sheet? what is the difference between them? are they linked? could someone PLEASE explain how these two data should be filled? thanks alot! -rohan |
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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I'm uploading a picture of a receipt, that has to be sent along with the cost report.
Since we are an international team, we have to submit proof of cost from the websites mentioned in the cost report. We have labelled the bills accordingly. However I wanted to confirm the way of labeling the receipts. I am uploading a receipt of one of the bills. Could someone please see the receipt and tell us any changes required to the Labeling. We also have a few more doubts: 1) Where should we fill the fastener's assembly time? should it be filled in separate categories? such as for suspension fasteners in suspension category or should it be filled in the Fasteners A sheet? 2) We have welded our gussets. So we have included the cost in Frame B. We have included the welding time also. Should we fill the same in Form A again? Thanks in advance! -rohan |
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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iterrazasg
Bolt Sorter Joined: Oct/14/2010 Location: Chihauhua Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Thanks a lot for the comment, i finally understand, i had a hard time with the material cost table because the price that it apears on the table are per pound and the price that i wanted was in cubic inches.
In the sample B it apears that the price per cubic inch of raw aluminium is $1.25 but the conversion that i made it`s different. Have u guys found some mistakes in the examples cost report or i`m becoming crazy with this report??
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Panteras Racing Team
Maverick Baja SAE Chihuahua Mexico |
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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For things like keystock you are buying the actual keystock as a product. To normalize the prototype costs of these vehicles, anything fabricated is built with material that theoretically is bought from a steel house. These places typically sell by weight, thus any tube, plate, sheet, billets, etc. that you use should be translated into actual volume that you used and costed in accordance with the tables.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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iterrazasg
Bolt Sorter Joined: Oct/14/2010 Location: Chihauhua Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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Thank you guys for your coments. What i was talkin about is the material table y the form B. The column of Weight depends of the density of material and the amount. In the line 1 sample it apears the keystock and it`s messured in feet, so the density and the weight is not filled. But in the sample in line 2 it apearst tubbing and it`s messured in in^3 and it`s all the line filled.
So my question is: can we putt the steel tubbing messured in inches and skip filling the density or do we need especifically to use in^3 and convert the prices given by the table.
It's not very clear to me wich is the best way of doing it.
Thanks for your help
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Panteras Racing Team
Maverick Baja SAE Chihuahua Mexico |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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materials (mild steel, aluminium, plastic) are cost using a standard price in the cost table sheet in the cost report. So say your chassis has 200in^3 of tubing (easily measurable with your cad program), you simply use the price given in the cost table and multiply it.
Its $1/in^3 for mild steel and $2/in^3 for any other alloy. |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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Rob71zilla
Welding Master Joined: Feb/09/2009 Location: Utica, NY Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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The units of density are lb/in^3 You need to enter a density for each material (steel, aluminum, etc.) it doesn't have anything to do with how much material you have.
Edited by Rob71zilla - Feb/08/2011 at 2:16pm |
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Robbie
Former Team Captain SUNY Institute of Technology Current Engineer for Remington Arms A Redline a day keeps the carbon away. |
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iterrazasg
Bolt Sorter Joined: Oct/14/2010 Location: Chihauhua Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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hi guys.
We`re having a hard time with the cost report. In the B form sample it shows the way to fill the spaces of each item.
We are not sure what to do with the tubes, it says that we have to use in^3 to messure them. chassis shop uses longitudinal units to sell the tube. But the example says that we have to fill the density space and the amount in in^3.
What are you guys doing with it?
Sorry for my spelling
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Panteras Racing Team
Maverick Baja SAE Chihuahua Mexico |
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Hop11
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jun/29/2010 Location: Baltimore, MD Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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It should be in man-hours. So if it takes four guys 5 minutes to assemble the calipers that would be 20 minutes of assembly time. Also this should be the time it takes someone to do it the fourth or fifth time, not the assembly time when they first see it.
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Hopkins Baja Captain '10-'11
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Amrit George
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/23/2010 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Okay...makes things a lot easier...
sorry for the repeating queries but another point which we are a little doubtful about is assembly time....For example say we have to assemble 4 callipers...is it the time required by only one guy to assemble four callipers or can it be time taken by four guys to assemble four callipers?.....
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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You aren't limited to finding things on those 3 websites. Those are simply places that happen to sell a lot of things that teams regularly use.
You can use prices from anywhere.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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Amrit George
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/23/2010 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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I am looking for a reverse gear wire on the three given sites but cannot find anything. Can someone help me out with the cost in dollars and a site?..
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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thanks alot!
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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ErikHardy
Baja Godfather Joined: Apr/12/2010 Location: Hood, Flint, MI Status: Offline Points: 939 |
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Rohan - You are correct, it's a wierd way to word it. Otherwise known as tube notching or fishmouthing for some slang words to throw around.
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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in the cost report, there is a operation called Radiusing Tube Ends. We are confused on what it actually means.
Is it the process of grinding the tube end as in when we weld T-joints, i.e., forming those semi-circular grooves of diameter's equal to those as the OD of the tube? I'm really sorry for asking such questions, but we are unfamiliar with a few terms. If i'm wrong about the operation, could someone please explain what this process actually is? thanks alot -rohan |
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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Amrit George
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/23/2010 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Well we bought these items....but we cannot find an exact match on the three given sites....we are a team from india ....so according to the rules we have to state a price of an item which is most similar to the one we bought......we just cannot convert the rupee rate of our component into dollars and write that.
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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I'm not entirely sure what you're asking... Did you fabricate these items or buy them? If you fabricate them you need to use the appropriate Form B and if you bought them you use the retail price of the part.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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Amrit George
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/23/2010 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Thanks !!
one more query ......i have been through the 3 given sites in the instructions page. however i have found it hard to square in on A- arms and steering shafts that suit our components. Do we have to match our components exactly dimension to dimension and can we refer to other sites if we do not have appropriate matches on the given sites?
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p.lewis
Welding Master Joined: Oct/05/2009 Location: Greater Detroit Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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That's a great example of a situation where you can document your cost saving measures to back up your claim (which is suggested in the cost report). In your situation I would supply a picture showing all the shearing cuts from a sheet of material and labeling each one.
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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This is one of the gray areas... In situations like that I (after debating with the cost auditor) costed it as 2 operations with a press brake type shear. Suppose the following:
You start with a large rectangular sheet of material. Using one of the factory corners, you can make 2 cuts to yield a smaller rectangle.
I think you may be referring to using air shears to cut the shape out, but that would be costed as X inches of cut instead.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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Amrit George
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/23/2010 Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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hi guys
In the baja cost event tables the cost of labor for sheet metal shearing is given per cut.
i want to know if i make a continous shear to obtain a rectangle (4 corners) , does it count as 1 cut or 4 different cuts?
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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thanks alot. this makes it clear.
-rohan |
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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Rob71zilla
Welding Master Joined: Feb/09/2009 Location: Utica, NY Status: Offline Points: 324 |
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If you have a weld around a 1" OD tube at 90 deg then the length of that weld would be = Pi*d, 3.14" This will change for any tube not at a 90 deg cut. When I did this part I wraped a string around the welds and then measured the lenght of it and it worked well.
For the tube cuts, if you cut a 1" OD tube at 90 deg then it should be costed as a 1" cut.
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Robbie
Former Team Captain SUNY Institute of Technology Current Engineer for Remington Arms A Redline a day keeps the carbon away. |
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rohanlakhotia46
Milling Master Joined: Sep/09/2010 Location: Vellore, INDIA Status: Offline Points: 49 |
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in the operation tables, the cost for welds and saw/tube cuts are given in terms of per inch. Could someone please explain the meaning of it.
1) is it related to the tube thickness or to the tube lengths? 2) could someone please explain how to use the following two things in the cost tables. since this is our first international baja event, we are little lost about the cost reports. It would be really helpful if someone could explain on how to use the cost chart for tube cuts and tube welds according to the per Inches rate. thanks again -rohan |
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Rohan Lakhotia
`The 46 Doctor` TEAM JAABAZ Vellore Institute Of Technology vellore,t.n., INDIA Car #42 (kansas) |
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