Off-Road Suspension Design Literature |
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RLM
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2012 Location: Hamilton, ON Status: Offline Points: 1258 |
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Posted: Jan/28/2016 at 2:11pm |
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1) This is the wrong section for this question as it in no way shape or form relates to suspension design literature, or even just suspension design. Please review the rules of the forum before posting here. 2) you do not need to show a receipt to the judges. However, you must find an online price in USD for those shocks and include that receipt in your cost report. |
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McMaster Baja Racing (09-Dec 2015)
Team Captain 2012-2015 Suspension Lead 2015-2016 All spoonfeed PM requests will be billed at $10 USD per reply, payable via paypal. |
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wilkesbaja
Double Secret Probation Joined: Jan/26/2016 Location: Wilkes Barre Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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We have these 4 Fox shocks that we inherited from the Baja club that existed at our school from 5 years ago. We do not have purchase receipts for them but I believe they are considered school property. Does anyone know if using these on our Baja would be legal and if so do we need some sort of purchase receipt or signature from the school? http://forums.bajasae.net/forum/uploads/3521/Susp1.JPG |
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Andy.R
Welding Master Joined: Dec/02/2014 Location: Ames, IA Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Here is an interesting article I found which has to do with roll situations and could be considered literature. Helped me a ton and prevented some mistakes in my calculations. |
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Pedro UFPBaja
Baja Godfather Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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Former Team Captain
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satishkumaryadala
Bolt Sorter Joined: Aug/10/2014 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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satishkumar.yadala2012@vit.ac.in this is my email id
pls send me all designs and material regarding trailing arm three link suspension Edited by satishkumaryadala - Aug/19/2014 at 3:08pm |
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jeiB
Baja Godfather Joined: Jul/17/2009 Location: Montreal Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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Satishkumaryadala, give you your email. I will send you all the information you require and also some designs that we used. |
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Jeremie B.
McGill Baja Racing 2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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satishkumaryadala
Bolt Sorter Joined: Aug/10/2014 Location: India Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Can anyone explain trailing arm three link geometry and how to find its instantaneous center, roll center , motion ratio and what are the advantages and disadvantages
MY EMAIL ID : satishkumar.yadala2012@vit.ac.in Edited by satishkumaryadala - Aug/19/2014 at 3:07pm |
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Mod Squad
Welding Master Mutant Enforcer Joined: Oct/19/2010 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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ranjan79
Double Secret Probation Joined: Feb/23/2014 Location: bhubaneswar Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Can you please send me the pdf of those books. My email is rohit5971ranjan@gmail.com
Speciall terramechanics of off road vehicle. |
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zglazer
Baja Godfather Joined: May/27/2012 Location: Metro Detroit Status: Offline Points: 593 |
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Arms are attached at the shoulders. For reference: http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/games/songs/childrens/bonesmid.htm
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Zack Glazer
McGill Baja Racing Alumnus 2009-2013 http://baja.mcgilleus.ca/ 2012-2013 Drivetrain Designer |
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pj2209
Bolt Sorter Joined: Dec/11/2013 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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Can you guys tell me how to install a king pin in a double Wish bone arrangement? and where are arms attached??
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Tony Rivera
Welding Master Joined: Nov/17/2009 Location: Tempe Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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I didn't see where anyone recommended it, but
Theory of Land Locomotion by Bekker is a good read as well. I found an online version of it here http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015000986904;view=1up;seq=1 |
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Tony Rivera
Arizona State University Team Captain 2009-2010 Local Motors Vehicle Systems Engineer |
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Mod Squad
Welding Master Mutant Enforcer Joined: Oct/19/2010 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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What does this have to do with suspension literature?
Answer: NOTHING
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Pedro UFPBaja
Baja Godfather Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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Frist step of the baja design is the suspension geometry.
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Former Team Captain
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zglazer
Baja Godfather Joined: May/27/2012 Location: Metro Detroit Status: Offline Points: 593 |
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Exactly. The frame is there to support the designs of the other systems, not the other way around. If your frame is making it hard to mount your suspension, change the frame.
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Zack Glazer
McGill Baja Racing Alumnus 2009-2013 http://baja.mcgilleus.ca/ 2012-2013 Drivetrain Designer |
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RLM
Baja Godfather Joined: Nov/15/2012 Location: Hamilton, ON Status: Offline Points: 1258 |
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In my experience, it is much easier to design your chassis around your suspension mount points than it is to design your suspension around your chassis. Not saying that it couldn't be done but your going to get some weird geometry I can imagine
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McMaster Baja Racing (09-Dec 2015)
Team Captain 2012-2015 Suspension Lead 2015-2016 All spoonfeed PM requests will be billed at $10 USD per reply, payable via paypal. |
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pratikJ
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jul/19/2013 Status: Offline Points: 1 |
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how do we apply a-arm on an inclined rod? like i have a problem with my a-arms as we have to fabricate one for a tapering nose. anybody can help?
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RonGeorge
Welding Master Joined: Apr/17/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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Without any of the accompanying images and graphics in the original article.
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-Ron George
Systems Engineer (Cummins Turbo) |
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Tony Rivera
Welding Master Joined: Nov/17/2009 Location: Tempe Status: Offline Points: 196 |
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This is not Off-Road related, and certainly not for beginners, but it sure is interesting.
http://www.ukipme.com/mag_vehicledynamics.htm I just signed up for monthly subscription (free!) They also have many other magazines, including: Automotive Testing, Crash Test Technology, Electric and Hybrid Vehicle Technology, Engine Technology, Industrial Vehicle Technology, Professional Motorsports, Tire Technology, and many others... http://www.ukipme.com/mag_index.htm |
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Tony Rivera
Arizona State University Team Captain 2009-2010 Local Motors Vehicle Systems Engineer |
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tp
Welding Master Joined: Mar/31/2009 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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-Tom
Oregon State BajaSAE Team Captain |
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RonGeorge
Welding Master Joined: Apr/17/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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@p.lewis - Did the magazine folks get back to you? I found the back issue with me. Did you want me to share it? I could scan it but first let me know if there are any ill-consequences of doing so. Don't want this to come bite my rear end later.
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-Ron George
Systems Engineer (Cummins Turbo) |
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RonGeorge
Welding Master Joined: Apr/17/2010 Location: Indiana Status: Offline Points: 286 |
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I think I have the copy saved with me. I'll look in my boxes and let you know. After I had read it, I did not feel it was a 'great' first exposure to the newbie on suspension principles but there are some practical matters in the article that concerns real world rigs much bigger than Baja SAE cars. |
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-Ron George
Systems Engineer (Cummins Turbo) |
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p.lewis
Welding Master Joined: Oct/05/2009 Location: Greater Detroit Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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Maybe 4WD Toyota Owner magazine would give us a PDF of the article that Tony Riviera was talking about and permission to post it on the forum. It was the July/August 2010 magazine, and the article was called "Ultimate Suspension Guide". The backorder copy of the edition in PDF on a disk only costs $7.
I'll shoot them an email and see if they'll do it for free in the interests of higher education. Edited by p.lewis - Sep/12/2011 at 3:31pm |
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University of Rochester Alum
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Ukraine Train
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jun/15/2009 Status: Offline Points: 4 |
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Do you still have this issue by chance? Care to scan the article for us? |
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Alex
Kettering U. alum |
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Red_Beard
Organizer Joined: May/14/2009 Location: Bellingham, WA Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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Should be mandatory? Where have you been man? Its been mandatory for the past 6 years! That movie is our gospel! Edited by Red_Beard - Sep/01/2011 at 2:59pm |
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SDSM&T 09-10 Team Lead
2nd & 9th Baja West Project Engineer Matrix Service - Bellingham, WA |
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Seriously, as mentioned in some other thread previously... I think Dust to Glory should be mandatory cinematic veiwing.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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Red_Beard
Organizer Joined: May/14/2009 Location: Bellingham, WA Status: Offline Points: 269 |
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I don't know... Paul Walker is a Master at Acting |
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SDSM&T 09-10 Team Lead
2nd & 9th Baja West Project Engineer Matrix Service - Bellingham, WA |
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neilan
Milling Master Joined: Jan/24/2010 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Too Soon.....
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OSU lead fabricator? or something like that
-Bo |
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tp
Welding Master Joined: Mar/31/2009 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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Can we make all 5 of the Fast and the Furious movies required literature?
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-Tom
Oregon State BajaSAE Team Captain |
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Mod Squad
Welding Master Mutant Enforcer Joined: Oct/19/2010 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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I've made the thread a sticky and merged every thread I could find regarding suspension literature.
Shazaam.
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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I think the books topic is something a lot of people are curious about/search for, so having it be highly visible would be good. The FSAE forum has a similar thread stuck to the top, and seems to do well.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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Mod Squad
Welding Master Mutant Enforcer Joined: Oct/19/2010 Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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The search does suck*, but cwru_bdf10 didn't even try. Searching "design literature" would have given a relevant thread.
*We're looking into changing the default search time from "Last 6 months" to "Any Date". Haven't found that switch in the admin panel yet...
Also, we're trying to add a Google search box. I'll make a sticky to help point out ways to search better.
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neilan
Milling Master Joined: Jan/24/2010 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 48 |
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Search, then go buy then entire Carroll Smith Series including the fastners and plumbing, four books total. edit-five books total, 4 "to win" books and the fastnersEdited by neilan - Sep/01/2011 at 12:29pm |
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OSU lead fabricator? or something like that
-Bo |
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tp
Welding Master Joined: Mar/31/2009 Location: Corvallis, OR Status: Offline Points: 348 |
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I'm starting a new search button campaign because of how many threads we have like this.
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-Tom
Oregon State BajaSAE Team Captain |
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Mod Squad... can we make one of these book threads sticky? It might help with some of the repetition.
Then again, maybe not.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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search search search search search search search!
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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cwru_bdf10
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/01/2011 Status: Offline Points: 2 |
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Mod Note: Merged with suitable thread
This year our team has been budgeted a few extra bucks to start a Baja library. Does anyone know of any useful and relevant books to go on our wish list? Edited by Mod Squad - Sep/08/2011 at 9:52am |
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ErikHardy
Baja Godfather Joined: Apr/12/2010 Location: Hood, Flint, MI Status: Offline Points: 939 |
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The concepts that you brought up are certaintly the controversial type. There are plenty of Vehicle dynamics guys/gals on the forum so don't be afraid to ask here, even if you make a fool of yourself by asking, I do it all the time.
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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Purduebaja
Welding Master Joined: Sep/19/2010 Status: Offline Points: 137 |
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Mod note: Merged "Vehicle Suspension Dynamics Literature" with this thread.
Not sure if this has been posted before, did a search on here but couldn't find anything.
I'm a drivetrain guy, and when talking with people who know their cars suspensions I feel my knowledge is a little lacking.
Could you guys recommend some good books and or tutorials I can take a look at to increase my knowledge of suspension dynamics?
FYI I have basic knowledge of things like toe, caster, camber, how different shock settings effect handling, but I'm looking for something fairly intuitive to help me understand more advanced concepts like roll centers, kickup, true ackerman etc.
If at all possible I'm looking for something written in the context of off road racing, although I understand pretty much all books are written in the context of on road mechanics.
Any help would be appreciated. Edited by Mod Squad - Sep/01/2011 at 1:02pm |
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Pedro UFPBaja
Baja Godfather Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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See also especifical off-road literature: -Theory of Ground Vehicles (Wong) -Terramechanics and Off-Road Vehicle Engineering (Wong) -Off the Road Mobility of Automobiles (Ageikin) And books that helps to make the final adjustment. -Tune to Win by Carroll Smith -Olav Aaen's Clutch Tuning Handbook Edited by Pedro UFPBaja - Sep/30/2010 at 4:25pm |
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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By the way, Chassis Engineering isn't worth the money in my opinion. I read it in an hour, didn't learn much of anything, and banished it to the shelf. RCVD is the vehicle dynamics bible though. It should be mandatory reading.
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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p.lewis
Welding Master Joined: Oct/05/2009 Location: Greater Detroit Status: Offline Points: 296 |
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You'll read the thread that Old Greg linked and quickly understand that there is a dearth of books on off-road suspension. People have made some suggestions for finding tidbits of info here and there, but there doesn't seem to be a theory, technical, practical, or how-to book out there for us (maybe some texts if you want to design tractors and tanks).
So the burden is on you to take the tire/asphault suspension books (RCVD and others) and figure out what applies to us and what doesn't.
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collinskl1
Baja Godfather Joined: Jan/21/2009 Location: Saginaw, MI Status: Offline Points: 1056 |
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hmmm...
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Kyle Collins
Lipscomb University Alumni 2x Project Manager Nexteer Automotive Product Engineer, Electronic Power Steering ... and the 8th simple machine: a bigger hammer. |
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cvargas
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/29/2010 Location: Melbourne FL Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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I already have a lot of those books on order haha. I figured a lot of the basic suspension knowledge from asphalt cars would carry over but I'm looking for a book geared toward off road suspension design if there is one like that.
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Old Greg
Bolt Sorter Joined: Jun/24/2009 Location: Tampa, FL Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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USF SAE
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cvargas
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Hey thanks a lot! I'll most definitely be buying these!< id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" ="">
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Pedro UFPBaja
Baja Godfather Joined: Mar/03/2010 Location: Brazil Status: Offline Points: 886 |
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RACE CAR VEHICLE DYNAMICS FUNDAMENTALS OF VEHICLE DYNAMICS ADVANCED VEHICLE TECNOLOGY BRAKE TECHNOLOGY HANDBOOK TIRES, SUSPENSION AND HANDLING CAR SUSPENSION AND HANDLING THE AUTOMOTIVE CHASSIS CHASSIS ENGINEERING MECHANICAL ENGINEERING DESIGN (SHINGLEY) |
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cvargas
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Mod note: Merged this thread with "Off-Road Suspension Design Literature"
Hello all, I've tried doing a search and looking through the forum to see if there was a recommended book list for reading regarding the basics of designing an off road vehicle. Does anyone know of any books that would be good for that? Thank you Carlos Edited by Mod Squad - Sep/01/2011 at 1:00pm |
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Birdman
Bolt Sorter Joined: Sep/14/2009 Location: Fargo, ND Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Has anyone read Competition Car Suspension:A Practical Handbook by Allan Staniforth?
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Lee- NDSU Mini Baja
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