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Floor mount or Swinging pedal BRAKE ASSEMBLY

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apjrocks View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 2:13am
There is Debate Among Team Member,Whether to use Floor mount Brake pedal Assembly or Swinging pedal brake assembly,
 I need suggestion regarding Positive and Negative Aspects Of One assembly over the other.
Any Suggestions and design related help is Welcomed!


Edited by apjrocks - Mar/20/2012 at 2:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob71zilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 6:36am
Some times you can get more leverage (higher ratio) from pedals that swing because you have more room to adjust the mounting point of the pedal. If you mounted them at the floor then your only adjustment would be the length of the pedals and you may compromise driver ergonomics if you make the pedals too short or too long. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 10:46am
What is the debate over?  It's hard to give advice when we don't know what the goals are.

Neither system is definitely better than the other.  What are your needs from the pedal assembly?

For example, in 2008 and 2009, our chassis had a single lower tube at the front of the car.  This made the nose V-shaped and left very little room for floor mounted pedals so we went with hanging pedals.

One plus of hanging pedals is that the pivot points are usually tucked up underneath the body panel so they stay fairly clean.  However, I don't know that I've ever seen a floor mounted pedal system malfunction from dirt/mud/etc...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collinskl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 11:33am
Originally posted by dillon_b12 dillon_b12 wrote:

However, I don't know that I've ever seen a floor mounted pedal system malfunction from dirt/mud/etc...

 
 
Midnight Mayhem 2009!  Half of the cars there were pinned WOT because of mud in the cockpit!
 
 
But back on topic...
 
I prefer hanging pedals, mainly because that's how most cars are, and I drive them a lot.  That said, we ran both types when I was on a team, mainly because of packaging restrictions, etc. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 11:38am
Originally posted by collinskl1 collinskl1 wrote:

Originally posted by dillon_b12 dillon_b12 wrote:

However, I don't know that I've ever seen a floor mounted pedal system malfunction from dirt/mud/etc...

 
 
Midnight Mayhem 2009!  Half of the cars there were pinned WOT because of mud in the cockpit!
 
 
But back on topic...
 
I prefer hanging pedals, mainly because that's how most cars are, and I drive them a lot.  That said, we ran both types when I was on a team, mainly because of packaging restrictions, etc. 

Guess I wasn't paying attention.  With mud like we saw in Mayhem '09, it's a matter of time before something screws up.

Working carnage at '09 Alabama, I definitely saw lots of cars stuck WOT because of mud(including us), but it was mud on the engine. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apjrocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 12:54pm
Thanks for suggestionsSmile!!it is really helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&Tminer baja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 4:02pm
Hanging:
Pros- More mounting options/space, more leverage for less ergonomic loss (possibly), easy to bleed 
Cons- Higher CG, more likely foot entrapment, usually larger and heavier systems, less natural foot movement (opposing foot and pedal angle change), difficult line routing (or excessive bends)

Floor:
Pros- Lower CG, more natural foot movement, typically more compact (out of necessity), simpler line routing
Cons- typically less mounting options, harder to bleed, has to accomodate steering setup
 
Just some things that come to mind. If you didn't decide this before you designed your frame, then I'm assuming that you are just trying to make whatever work with what  frame you already have. In that case, it is usually easier to mount swinging pedals, since cars tend to have more room up top, and so more freedom to place brakes. I personally always liked floor mount, for ergonomic reasons, and because every bit of CG that you can lower counts. Plus, I hate having lots of brake lines running around my feet and other moving parts. With floor mount, you can just turn them down and have them follow a floor tube instead of having to turn down and go an extra few inches to the floor or through the cockpit (again assuming you run lines traditionally).
-Carl Lacy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote S&Tminer baja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/20/2012 at 4:04pm
Then again, we also run a clutch pedal most of the time, and packaging is a little different with that extra pedal...
-Carl Lacy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apjrocks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/22/2012 at 12:51am
Thanks Dude!Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/26/2013 at 2:50pm
Would you be able to tell me your reasoning behind bleeding brakes being more difficult when you have floor mounted brakes. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joey.m.gonzalez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/26/2013 at 3:30pm
Master cylinders being more difficult to access unless you removed some more body panels. Swinging pedal, just remove the hood and you're there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FredC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/26/2013 at 7:22pm
If you have remote brake fluid reservoir with you floor located master cylinders, it's not harder to bleed than having your master cylinders hanging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robins5d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/27/2013 at 12:06am
last year we did floor mounted pedals. since we had a triangular frame (not legal with this years rules) the floor pan was mounted a few inches above the LFS, along the tubes marked in red. This gave us room to mount them below the floor pan and out of sight. we got a lot of design points for that and it gave us a lot of extra room for our feet but the downside was that it was a pain in the ass to bleed. we had to remove the entire pedal assembly and front body panel in order to do it. But our brake assembly and tabs were very light because everything was close to the frame.



for the 2 years before that we had hanging mounts. In order to mount them MC's properly, we had to add an extra tube and a crap load of tabs. It became a bit overdone in my opinion and i think it was much more cramped then our other design. But bleeding it was significantly easier. The only serious issue we had was that the master cylinders were extending outside the frame (slight design error that the tech inspectors didnt like). we had to weld extra tubes in front of in to protect it and pass tech so overall it weighed a lot more then it should have. In general i think this one is easier to design and maintain but the other one was more comfortable and worked better for our team.
Paul Robinson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zglazer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/27/2013 at 9:31am
We've found hanging pedals to be easier to package. There is definitely a downside to ergonomics since your foot motion is the opposite of the pedal motion, but you can actually get around that by being creative with the shape of the pedal. As for mounting and weight, it's still possible to have a very light pedal assembly with this kind of design. Of course, it depends on the actual shape of your frame, but last year we actually managed to mount the whole brake pedal assembly off one tab welded to the front upper LC. You can also save a lot of weight by using aluminum and even plastic parts for some things.
Zack Glazer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gearhed31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/27/2013 at 8:27pm
interesting to see so many teams advocate hanging pedals. we have run them for years, but this year we are switching to bottom hinged pedals. we found that although easy to install, the hanging pedals require a tall hood to cover. this led to restriction of the driver's view

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cujdubs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/27/2013 at 10:44pm
In recent years we have always run a hanging brake and gas but this past year we tried floor mount gas and dident like how all the mud got packed around it in Rochester so we will probably switch back to all hanging.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krowx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/28/2013 at 12:24pm
I would have to say that floor mounted is the way to go. Like was said before a hanging assembly is awkward and means you must be creative to avoid cramping after 4 hrs. Mean while a floor mount can be just as light weight and directs the brake force to the floor which is a plus.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote joey.m.gonzalez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/31/2013 at 12:25am
We will be going to floor mount this year after the last few years with the most awkward position of the brake pedal.

Joey
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