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3 tanks of Argon later... |
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Topic: 3 tanks of Argon later...Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 3:57pm |
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Spent about 30 of the last 48 hours in the shop (had to sleep and eat at some point), but we got our chassis fully welded this weekend. Here are some sneak peeks:
![]() ![]() Was pretty happy with how this node turned out: ![]() Edited by tp - 2010-Mar-03 at 11:38am |
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jeiB
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Jul-17 Location: Montreal Online Status: Offline Posts: 372 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 4:53pm |
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nice frame, do you want to share frame wieghts too? lol
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McGill Baja Racing
2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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Rob71zilla
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Joined: 2009-Feb-09 Location: Utica, NY Online Status: Offline Posts: 318 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 5:00pm |
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Frame that picture haha
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Robbie
Former Team Captain SUNY Institute of Technology Current Engineer for Remington Arms A Redline a day keeps the carbon away. |
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 5:14pm |
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Honestly I don't know what the frame weight is. I'm guessing it will come in right at 50 lbs with suspension tabs and engine mounts.
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SDTech
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Joined: 2009-May-13 Location: Rapid City, SD Online Status: Offline Posts: 68 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 6:01pm |
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Nice! What filler are you using? Stainless?
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SDSMT Baja SAE
Car #'s 4 & 6 - Oregon Car # 14 - Wisconsin #4 & #79 - Western Washington 2010-2011 SDSM&T Team Lead |
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CLReedy21
Baja Godfather
Joined: 2008-Nov-30 Location: Cookeville, TN Online Status: Offline Posts: 667 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 9:53pm |
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Looks good, what's new with this year's car?
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-Chris Reedy
TTU Team A-hole - www.ttubaja.com Honda R&D ATV Design Engineer - www.hondaresearch.com "Quick with the hammer, slow with the brain." |
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 11:45pm |
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Main change is going from our drag-link suspension in the past to a SLA setup this year. As a consequence, back half of the chassis has changed. Also we are trying to get a Gaged running, but there is still a long road ahead on that. There are a couple other minor changes through-out the car as well, with a pretty big focus on driver ergonomics. Any big news for you guys?
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-07 at 11:48pm |
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Oh and I can't remember what filler rod we use off the top of my head. It's not stainless. I can check tomorrow.
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BamaBoy
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Joined: 2010-Feb-08 Location: Shooting Range. Online Status: Offline Posts: 13 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 7:16am |
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Looks like ER70S6-mild steel rod. At least that's what I would weld a chassis together with. |
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Rule number 2: The Double Tap
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BamaBoy
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Joined: 2010-Feb-08 Location: Shooting Range. Online Status: Offline Posts: 13 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 7:17am |
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Psst.... It's a chassis dude. |
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Rule number 2: The Double Tap
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CobraCommander
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Joined: 2010-Feb-03 Location: Ontario, Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 95 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 9:45am |
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I'm curious why your roll hoop extends past what appears to be your lower frame rails? Will that be trimmed now that you've finished welding?
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COBRA Team Captain
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Rambo
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 10:46am |
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Those are mounting points for the jump-jets we're adding this year. They should come in handy on rock crawl...
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 10:49am |
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You are correct. Also, the jump jacks is something we're looking into for the innovation category. We were also thinking about trying to get frogger mode to work for the water event... Edited by tp - 2010-Feb-08 at 10:53am |
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BamaBoy
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Joined: 2010-Feb-08 Location: Shooting Range. Online Status: Offline Posts: 13 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 6:22pm |
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Are you retarded? Someone actually asked a decent question and you come up with some smartass remark. |
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Rule number 2: The Double Tap
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SDTech
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Joined: 2009-May-13 Location: Rapid City, SD Online Status: Offline Posts: 68 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 7:35pm |
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Easy there Nancy, I believe sarcasm is allowed on this board... |
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SDSMT Baja SAE
Car #'s 4 & 6 - Oregon Car # 14 - Wisconsin #4 & #79 - Western Washington 2010-2011 SDSM&T Team Lead |
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BamaBoy
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 8:02pm |
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Well considering his dumbass remark was the first thing he has posted on this forum, I think he deserved to be call on it. And my name isn't Nancy. |
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Rule number 2: The Double Tap
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Rambo
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 9:02pm |
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Take a chill pill, it's your first day.
Yes, those ends on the RHO will be trimmed. We started coping from the RHO out. At this point, those ends can be trimmed and capped. |
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 10:43pm |
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Can we just take our Pamprin and move on? Someone said something mean, so what? Thread is getting off topic anyways.
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Red_Beard
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Joined: 2009-May-14 Location: Tucson, AZ Online Status: Offline Posts: 214 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 10:48pm |
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So what are the specs on those rockets your going to use? Sounds like a good idea ![]() |
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 10:50pm |
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Compressed air. Never know, might have to use them more then once...
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ehunt
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Joined: 2008-Nov-17 Location: Cornell Online Status: Offline Posts: 54 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-08 at 11:40pm |
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How big were the tanks of argon? We've welded our chassis, most of the tabs and all the suspension links, as well as some random side projects like butt welding boned bars back together to make a tire rack and still only used about 1.5 - 2 tanks.
But anyway that is an epic welding montage, my eyes are usually toast after a couple hours, so I can't even imagine 30 hours over two days.... |
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Eric Hunt
Cornell Baja 08-09 Team Captain Its not your aptitude but you attitude that determines your altitude. |
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neilan
Milling Master
Joined: 2010-Jan-24 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-09 at 12:59am |
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We turn the argon way up, that way with a good gas lense you can extend the tungsten way out to get in the tight spots without any negative effects. I dont think we actually used three whole tanks...
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OSU lead fabricator? or something like that
-Bo |
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CobraCommander
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Joined: 2010-Feb-03 Location: Ontario, Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 95 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-09 at 9:01am |
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Don't worry about me I've gotta thick skin...
By the way NICE JIG ![]() |
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COBRA Team Captain
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-09 at 11:43am |
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Neilan is right. We do use lot's of Argon. But I guess it wasn't 3 full tanks. We just happened to use 3 different Argon tanks through-out the weekend. Two were like half full. Also, there was far more time spent coping and re-coping tubes then there was welding.
About the jig though. We damn near spend more time making the jig then making the chassis itself. A lot of the suspension geometry has to be within thousandths, so getting all the parts machined and the whole jig set up its rather labor intensive. But honestly there isn't really other way. |
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neilan
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Joined: 2010-Jan-24 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-09 at 12:15pm |
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Thanks, There are a ton more aluminum parts for the rear end that arn't on there. Most of peices had some really weird angles macined on them to hold brackets and mounts.
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OSU lead fabricator? or something like that
-Bo |
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CobraCommander
Milling Master
Joined: 2010-Feb-03 Location: Ontario, Canada Online Status: Offline Posts: 95 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-09 at 1:40pm |
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You should see our jig setup... oh wait, we'd actually need a jig setup... Does a steel table and lots a clamps count? It's on the list of ways to improve the team... Personally I'd make it a rotisserie because I'm likely to be the guy welding it too...
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COBRA Team Captain
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p.lewis
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Joined: 2009-Oct-04 Location: Rochester, NY Online Status: Offline Posts: 237 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-10 at 12:47pm |
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I'm willing to bet that the real answer for the extra long tubes is either so you can weld on them without chasing a tube blowout or because alignment and precision cutting of the tube isn't important and oversize makes it easier.
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neilan
Milling Master
Joined: 2010-Jan-24 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-14 at 8:59pm |
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We leave them that way until the end for a few reasons. Mostly because it is eaisier to trim them to the right length once everything is welded on. And they are not capped until the very end because all of the other tubes drilled to vent into those while welding. |
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OSU lead fabricator? or something like that
-Bo |
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schooter
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Joined: 2010-Feb-22 Online Status: Offline Posts: 69 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-22 at 4:24pm |
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Congrats on the welding job, that picture could arguably be put in textbook! Your welder must have some experience, how much? That jig must be awesome to weld in, so much access to everything.
What was your technique for cleaning? This is my first year welding a frame so I'm curious. Since we use hot rolled frame tubing, to clean our frame tubes we just took some sandpaper to the outside until the metal was shiny then wiped them down with some acetone or alcohol. I started using ER70S-6 filler with 23 CFH of argon, the larger size cup and thoriated tungsten. That welded fine until something caused some porosity. I checked all the seals in the torch and they all looked fine. So I switched to ER70S-2 filler since, I understand, the chemistry of that filler to be more resistant to contamination. That helped but I still had an occasional porous weld. So I thought well maybe I'm drawing some contaminants from the inside of the tube through. I remembered watching this video where some welding guru used Muratic Acid to clean the joint to be welded so I figured I try that. That helped allot and made some sweet looking parts. So clean!! However, still a couple times I had a porous weld. By this point I'm getting pissed and decided that even though I'm not excited about the idea I'll just go ahead and take a wire wheel to each joint. I'm welding steel here so a wire wheel shouldn't get steel contaminated like aluminum would. Since then I haven't had problems with porosity. |
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tp
Welding Master
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Posted: 2010-Feb-22 at 6:34pm |
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Our chassis is made from 4130, so I guess it's a little different HR. As far as cleaning, just get it shiny with some Scotch-Brite, then finish it off by wiping it down with some Acetone. Never really cleaned the inside of the tube. Seems to work pretty good for us.
In other news, we've been working hard on getting 'er rolling. New pics should be coming soon... |
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bigusnickus
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Joined: 2009-Mar-18 Location: Cincinnati, OH Online Status: Offline Posts: 19 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-24 at 11:13am |
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Schooter,
ER70S-2 is the better choice due to the increase in Silicon content of the wire to help deoxidize the weld deposit. You might be getting the porosity when you attempt a seal weld at the end of a joint. All of the gas in the tube has to have somewhere to go, and that is usually the last part of the weld you are attempting. Drill a small hole (1/16 or less") somewhere near the center of the tube to let the gas escape and you should be good to go. I know there is no such thing as overcleaning, but in my 4 baja frames all we did was scotchbrite/sandblast the external part of the tube and do a finish wipe with acetone.
Lookin' good other OSU!
Getting to weld these tubes is one of the things I miss most from Baja.
Keep it up.
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Nick Balzer Baja Buckeyes Alum 08'
BAE Systems Welding Engineer |
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Feb-24 at 2:41pm |
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Haha oh yeah I did forget to mention that hole drilling part. It does make a huge difference in that you don't have the gas trying to blow out there at the end.
I've tried different fillers, and there is a difference, but I rarely know what I am actually using. If you are unsure, talk to a welding supply store. They always seem to be able to explain it pretty well. I will say that I enjoy getting to weld (although the ones your seeing on the car are not mine). But I can tell you that I will probably not miss the tubing coping part. Tubes tend to go flying across the shop after I spend an hour on one only to find I took a little too much off. Hoping to get enough work done this weekend that we can have a roller, but well see. Pretty much everything has to be done with the chassis before it comes out of the jig. Edited by tp - 2010-Feb-24 at 2:45pm |
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schooter
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Posted: 2010-Feb-24 at 3:07pm |
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Thanks for the info. We've definitely had a few frustrations with coping tubes also. If we would've had our design done a few weeks earlier we would've had all the tubes laser notched by a company we work with. Our Formula team did it with their frame and it came out awesome. No coping, grinding or tubes flying across the floor. You just get them jigged up and start tacking them together.
I've already used the technique, on other projects, with drilling a small hole to allow the gas to flow. Our frame is still has most of the jig around it so most of the tubes are not yet sealed. I've done a few over-head welds but I don't feel like doing a whole frame worth of them. I'll see if I can get some pics and start a new thread. I got some knuckles that are turning out sweet. Frame should be out of the jig this weekend too. |
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Tony Rivera
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Posted: 2010-Feb-25 at 11:45pm |
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Since you brought up the point on cleaning, I was reminded of this article that I feel is crucial for anyone that welds
Always be aware of what chemicals you are using to clean your metal.
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Tony Rivera
Arizona State University Team Captain 2009-2010 |
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tp
Welding Master
Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Mar-03 at 11:44am |
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Well got lots more welding done. Our rear suspension is pretty much done, we just need to stake the bearings in.
Knuckle being welded: ![]() Finished product: ![]() Lower a-arm being tested. It'll move 18" before binding, so was pretty happy with that. ![]() |
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BamaBoy
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Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 11:29am |
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I hope those aren't the finished motor mounts. Any plans on more gussets?
What's the wall thickness of the bearing housing on that knuckle? Looks heavy. When do guys expect to have a rolling chassis? |
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Rule number 2: The Double Tap
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tp
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Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 11:39am |
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No the motor mounts are far from done in that picture. We re-enforced them while putting in the transaxle mount. Really right now there isn't going to be a rolling chassis step. Transaxle and motor are in already, just waiting for the rear suspension to get finished. We have all the arms welded and knuckles, we just need to get the bearings staked.
Oh and to answer your question, the knuckles weigh less than they did when we did SLA rear suspension back in 2007. It's mostly made out of .090 4130.
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BamaBoy
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Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 11:45am |
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Well it sounds like you need to update your pictures then.
Where are you guys on all the little things like steering, peddle assembly, and seat? |
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Rule number 2: The Double Tap
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tp
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 7:03pm |
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Seat is done, pedal assembly needs to be welded and the steering just needs a little support. With the u-joint in there, it has a bad tendency to bind. I'll nab my camera and get some pictures. Earlier today we got all the bearings in and all the suspension is on the car.
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tp
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Joined: 2009-Mar-31 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 331 |
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Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 8:41pm |
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Crappy cell phone picture. Rear suspension just needs toe links, and then we need to make axles.
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jeiB
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Posted: 2010-Mar-10 at 10:36am |
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SEXY...we are at the same stage, parts for the transmission getting splined and then they re to the heat treaments.
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McGill Baja Racing
2009-2011 Captain minibaja.mcgill.ca |
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neilan
Milling Master
Joined: 2010-Jan-24 Location: Corvallis, OR Online Status: Offline Posts: 48 |
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Posted: 2010-Mar-11 at 1:52am |
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Ok tom i think we have teased enough. time to make them wait until competition...
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OSU lead fabricator? or something like that
-Bo |
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BamaBoy
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Joined: 2010-Feb-08 Location: Shooting Range. Online Status: Offline Posts: 13 |
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Posted: 2010-Mar-13 at 2:28pm |
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Party pooper! You shouldn't worry about people copying your design, because you guys need more competition. ![]() The emoticons are soooo gay here...... |
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Rule number 2: The Double Tap
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