BajaSAE.net Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Lounge
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: 3 tanks of Argon later...
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Calendar   Register Register  Login Login

3 tanks of Argon later...

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12
Author
Message
CobraCommander View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Feb-03
Online Status: Online
Posts: 33
Post Options Post Options   Quote CobraCommander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 3 tanks of Argon later...
    Posted: 2010-Feb-09 at 1:40pm
You should see our jig setup... oh wait, we'd actually need a jig setup... Does a steel table and lots a clamps count? It's on the list of ways to improve the team... Personally I'd make it a rotisserie because I'm likely to be the guy welding it too...
COBRA Team Captain
Back to Top
p.lewis View Drop Down
Milling Master
Milling Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Oct-04
Location: Rochester, NY
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 64
Post Options Post Options   Quote p.lewis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-10 at 12:47pm
I'm willing to bet that the real answer for the extra long tubes is either so you can weld on them without chasing a tube blowout or because alignment and precision cutting of the tube isn't important and oversize makes it easier.
Back to Top
neilan View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Jan-24
Location: corvallis OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 24
Post Options Post Options   Quote neilan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-14 at 8:59pm

We leave them that way until the end for a few reasons. Mostly because it is eaisier to trim them to the right length once everything is welded on. And they are not capped until the very end because all of the other tubes drilled to vent into those while welding.

OSU baja
Back to Top
schooter View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Feb-22
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12
Post Options Post Options   Quote schooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-22 at 4:24pm
Congrats on the welding job, that picture could arguably be put in textbook! Your welder must have some experience, how much? That jig must be awesome to weld in, so much access to everything.

What was your technique for cleaning? This is my first year welding a frame so I'm curious. Since we use hot rolled frame tubing, to clean our frame tubes we just took some sandpaper to the outside until the metal was shiny then wiped them down with some acetone or alcohol. I started using ER70S-6 filler with 23 CFH of argon, the larger size cup and thoriated tungsten. That welded fine until something caused some porosity. I checked all the seals in the torch and they all looked fine.

So I switched to ER70S-2 filler since, I understand, the chemistry of that filler to be more resistant to contamination. That helped but I still had an occasional porous weld. So I thought well maybe I'm drawing some contaminants from the inside of the tube through. I remembered watching this video where some welding guru used Muratic Acid to clean the joint to be welded so I figured I try that.

That helped allot and made some sweet looking parts. So clean!! However, still a couple times I had a porous weld. By this point I'm getting pissed and decided that even though I'm not excited about the idea I'll just go ahead and take a wire wheel to each joint. I'm welding steel here so a wire wheel shouldn't get steel contaminated like aluminum would. Since then I haven't had problems with porosity.
Back to Top
tp View Drop Down
Milling Master
Milling Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31
Location: Corvallis, OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 70
Post Options Post Options   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-22 at 6:34pm
Our chassis is made from 4130, so I guess it's a little different HR. As far as cleaning, just get it shiny with some Scotch-Brite, then finish it off by wiping it down with some Acetone. Never really cleaned the inside of the tube. Seems to work pretty good for us.

In other news, we've been working hard on getting 'er rolling. New pics should be coming soon...
Beaver Racing Co-Head Honcho

Dimple dies = + 5 HP
Back to Top
bigusnickus View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-18
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 14
Post Options Post Options   Quote bigusnickus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-24 at 11:13am
Schooter,
 
ER70S-2 is the better choice due to the increase in Silicon content of the wire to help deoxidize the weld deposit. You might be getting the porosity when you attempt a seal weld at the end of a joint. All of the gas in the tube has to have somewhere to go, and that is usually the last part of the weld you are attempting. Drill a small hole (1/16 or less") somewhere near the center of the tube to let the gas escape and you should be good to go. I know there is no such thing as overcleaning, but in my 4 baja frames all we did was scotchbrite/sandblast the external part of the tube and do a finish wipe with acetone.
 
Lookin' good other OSU!
 
Getting to weld these tubes is one of the things I miss most from Baja.
 
Keep it up.
Nick Balzer Baja Buckeyes Alum 08'
BAE Systems Welding Engineer
Back to Top
tp View Drop Down
Milling Master
Milling Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31
Location: Corvallis, OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 70
Post Options Post Options   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-24 at 2:41pm
Haha oh yeah I did forget to mention that hole drilling part. It does make a huge difference in that you don't have the gas trying to blow out there at the end.

I've tried different fillers, and there is a difference, but I rarely know what I am actually using. If you are unsure, talk to a welding supply store. They always seem to be able to explain it pretty well.

I will say that I enjoy getting to weld (although the ones your seeing on the car are not mine). But I can tell you that I will probably not miss the tubing coping part. Tubes tend to go flying across the shop after I spend an hour on one only to find I took a little too much off.

Hoping to get enough work done this weekend that we can have a roller, but well see. Pretty much everything has to be done with the chassis before it comes out of the jig.


Edited by tp - 2010-Feb-24 at 2:45pm
Beaver Racing Co-Head Honcho

Dimple dies = + 5 HP
Back to Top
schooter View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Feb-22
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 12
Post Options Post Options   Quote schooter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-24 at 3:07pm
Thanks for the info. We've definitely had a few frustrations with coping tubes also. If we would've had our design done a few weeks earlier we would've had all the tubes laser notched by a company we work with. Our Formula team did it with their frame and it came out awesome. No coping, grinding or tubes flying across the floor. You just get them jigged up and start tacking them together.

I've already used the technique, on other projects, with drilling a small hole to allow the gas to flow. Our frame is still has most of the jig around it so most of the tubes are not yet sealed. I've done a few over-head welds but I don't feel like doing a whole frame worth of them.

I'll see if I can get some pics and start a new thread. I got some knuckles that are turning out sweet. Frame should be out of the jig this weekend too.
Back to Top
Tony Rivera View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2009-Nov-17
Location: Tempe
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 18
Post Options Post Options   Quote Tony Rivera Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Feb-25 at 11:45pm
Since you brought up the point on cleaning, I was reminded of this article that I feel is crucial for anyone that welds
 
 
Always be aware of what chemicals you are using to clean your metal.
Tony Rivera
Arizona State University
Team Captain 2009-2010
Back to Top
tp View Drop Down
Milling Master
Milling Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31
Location: Corvallis, OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 70
Post Options Post Options   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-03 at 11:44am
Well got lots more welding done. Our rear suspension is pretty much done, we just need to stake the bearings in.

Knuckle being welded:


Finished product:


Lower a-arm being tested. It'll move 18" before binding, so was pretty happy with that.

Beaver Racing Co-Head Honcho

Dimple dies = + 5 HP
Back to Top
BamaBoy View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Feb-08
Location: Shooting Range.
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13
Post Options Post Options   Quote BamaBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 11:29am
I hope those aren't the finished motor mounts.   Any plans on more gussets?

What's the wall thickness of the bearing housing on that knuckle?  Looks heavy.


When do guys expect to have a rolling chassis?
Rule number 2: The Double Tap
Back to Top
tp View Drop Down
Milling Master
Milling Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31
Location: Corvallis, OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 70
Post Options Post Options   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 11:39am
No the motor mounts are far from done in that picture. We re-enforced them while putting in the transaxle mount. Really right now there isn't going to be a rolling chassis step. Transaxle and motor are in already, just waiting for the rear suspension to get finished. We have all the arms welded and knuckles, we just need to get the bearings staked.

Oh and to answer your question, the knuckles weigh less than they did when we did SLA rear suspension  back in 2007. It's mostly made out of .090 4130.
Beaver Racing Co-Head Honcho

Dimple dies = + 5 HP
Back to Top
BamaBoy View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Feb-08
Location: Shooting Range.
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13
Post Options Post Options   Quote BamaBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 11:45am
Well it sounds like you need to update your pictures then.

Where are you guys on all the little things like steering, peddle assembly, and seat?
Rule number 2: The Double Tap
Back to Top
tp View Drop Down
Milling Master
Milling Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31
Location: Corvallis, OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 70
Post Options Post Options   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 7:03pm
Seat is done, pedal assembly needs to be welded and the steering just needs a little support. With the u-joint in there, it has a bad tendency to bind. I'll nab my camera and get some pictures. Earlier today we got all the bearings in and all the suspension is on the car.
Beaver Racing Co-Head Honcho

Dimple dies = + 5 HP
Back to Top
tp View Drop Down
Milling Master
Milling Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Mar-31
Location: Corvallis, OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 70
Post Options Post Options   Quote tp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-09 at 8:41pm
Crappy cell phone picture. Rear suspension just needs toe links, and then we need to make axles.

Beaver Racing Co-Head Honcho

Dimple dies = + 5 HP
Back to Top
jeiB View Drop Down
Welding Master
Welding Master
Avatar

Joined: 2009-Jul-17
Location: Montreal
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 125
Post Options Post Options   Quote jeiB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-10 at 10:36am
SEXY...we are at the same stage, parts for the transmission getting splined and then they re to the heat treaments. 
McGill Baja
2009 - 2011 Captain
minibaja.mcgill.ca/
Back to Top
neilan View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Jan-24
Location: corvallis OR
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 24
Post Options Post Options   Quote neilan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-11 at 1:52am
Ok tom i think we have teased enough. time to make them wait until competition...
OSU baja
Back to Top
BamaBoy View Drop Down
Bolt Sorter
Bolt Sorter


Joined: 2010-Feb-08
Location: Shooting Range.
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 13
Post Options Post Options   Quote BamaBoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2010-Mar-13 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by neilan

Ok tom i think we have teased enough. time to make them wait until competition...


Party pooper!

You shouldn't worry about people copying your design, because you guys need more competition. LOL

The emoticons are soooo gay here......
Rule number 2: The Double Tap
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.