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2011 Rule B8.3.7

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kenneth.mandeville View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneth.mandeville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 2011 Rule B8.3.7
    Posted: Aug/28/2010 at 1:11pm
So rule B8.3.7 "Every driver’s feet must be entirely behind the plane of the FBMUP members."  This is new, I'm pretty sure that means no foot box.  Is that right?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charles ulaval Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2010 at 1:28pm
That's also what I understand... we didn't want to change that part of the frame, but I guess we won't have the choice!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tantum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2010 at 3:21pm
It would depend on how your frame was built.

A car like FEI's (first I could think of off the top of my head), would still be able to keep its form, based on how that rule is described.


Unless I am reading it wrong - Which I could be.


Edited by Tantum - Aug/28/2010 at 3:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote charles ulaval Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2010 at 4:06pm
FEI doesn't have a footbox, they could effectively keep it like it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneth.mandeville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/28/2010 at 4:15pm
I emailed the rule committee, I will post here if I ever hear back from them. I'm pretty sure there was an FAQ on the SAE site that had a reference to foot boxes, I cannot find this now though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/29/2010 at 8:04pm

Am I understanding this correctly, this is considered illegal now?

Were not allowed to have a "nose" on the car anymore?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/29/2010 at 10:08pm
That is the way I understand and I sure hope not since we have been running a "footbox" chassis for the last three years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob71zilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 7:39am
I don't see any reason why they would change that rule, unless I am missing something
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeiB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 9:05am
well...now every car is going to look even more similar
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GT Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 10:25am

I agree with Robbie... from the perspective of a former team leader, I don't understand why they felt this rule change was necessary.  GT has always built a "footbox" car, and I dare say that your feet are the safest thing on the driver's body with all the steel we put up there, regardless of where the foot-box interfaces to the FBM.  I suppose its an effort to simplify the load paths in the chassis... but I don't get it.

Good luck everyone in your new front-end designs!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bi-Brow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 12:55pm
Well how about B8.3.1?

SIMs are now considered secondary members that can be 1" .035 (page 20)

Kind of a step backward if they are making these changes for safety
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waffles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by Bi-Brow Bi-Brow wrote:

Well how about B8.3.1?

SIMs are now considered secondary members that can be 1" .035 (page 20)

Kind of a step backward if they are making these changes for safety


Pretty sure that was the case last year...  and the year before that..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 1:15pm
Originally posted by Waffles Waffles wrote:

Originally posted by Bi-Brow Bi-Brow wrote:

Well how about B8.3.1?

SIMs are now considered secondary members that can be 1" .035 (page 20)

Kind of a step backward if they are making these changes for safety


Pretty sure that was the case last year...  and the year before that..

I just checked 2010 rules and the SIM was a secondary member then as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bi-Brow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 1:25pm
Hmmmm well that's embarrassing Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by GT Steve GT Steve wrote:

I suppose its an effort to simplify the load paths in the chassis... but I don't get it.

 
That would be my guess as well. I can see it being a safety issue in the event of a severe nose dive with a wimpy "footbox"
 
I suppose its time for something new on our car
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneth.mandeville Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 7:22pm
Now does the FBMDOWN have to be 1.25x0.065 too?  It sure does seem that way, but it never had to be.

Edited by kenneth.mandeville - Aug/30/2010 at 7:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CobraCommander Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 8:10pm
Any guesses if something like this would still be considered legal as per the rules? The drivers feet are behind the plane created by the FBM-Up but we're also planning on constructing a "footbox" to mount stuff... Only complication I see is the extra bend... I'm planning on emailing the SAE rules for clarification as well... edited: to show plane and scale

Edited by CobraCommander - Aug/30/2010 at 10:51pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 8:57pm
I don't think so due to the fact that your feet must be entirely behind the FBM-up plane. Its hard to judge distances without any reference but it looks like you would need short legs or knees in your chest for 4 hours in order to pass tech?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asims Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by kenneth.mandeville kenneth.mandeville wrote:

Now does the FBMDOWN have to be 1.25x0.065 too?  It sure does seem that way, but it never had to be.


It's been that way since at least 2008, likely longer, but that's as far back as I have rules for

For teams with footboxes:  why not just convert to front braced designs?  All that would mean in your design is to change your current FBM into the FAB, and create a new tube from Point C to the end of your footbox.  This seems like the quickest way to comply with the new rules without spending too much time redesigning a frame you're comfortable with.

Cobra:

You guys may want to reevaluate the way your FBM is positioned, and where it intersects with the RHO.  Judging from that picture, I doubt you comply with B8.3.3, specifically:
Quote The forward ends of the RHO members (intersection with the LC) define points CR and CL (Fig.RC3).  Points CR and CL must be at least 305 mm (12 in.) forward of a point, in the vehicle’s elevation view, defined by the intersection of the RHO members and a vertical line rising from the after end of the seat bottom.  This point on the seat is defined by the seat bottom intersection with a 101 mm (4 in.) radius circle which touches the seat bottom and the seat back.

It seems like you could simply bring point C forward several inches, make the FAB more vertical, and eliminate the lower bend in the FBM, thus solving any conflict with B8.3.7 and B8.3.3 at the same time.


Edited by asims - Aug/30/2010 at 10:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CLReedy21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by asims asims wrote:

For teams with footboxes:  why not just convert to front braced designs?  All that would mean in your design is to change your current FBM into the FAB, and create a new tube from Point C to the end of your footbox.  This seems like the quickest way to comply with the new rules without spending too much time redesigning a frame you're comfortable with.


For teams with manual gearboxes: why not just convert to CVT designs?  All that would mean in your design is to change out one gearbox for another. 

Not trying to be a jerk but listen to what that sounds like.

The fact of the matter here is that I'm now going to have to do some seriously ghetto sh*t to my structural setup in order to keep the form factor I want.  Without this pointless rule I'd end up with a much stouter, safer chassis that would be easier to make and less of a pain in the ass all the way around.  All that for what?  So that somebody can feel warm and fuzzy about where the driver's feet are in relation to a set of tubes? 

I just don't think that this rules adds anything meaningful to driver safety, but it really holds back the design side of many teams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asims Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/30/2010 at 11:40pm
Chris, I'm not trying to marginalize the amount of work that will go into a redesign.  I know full well that it will take quite a bit of work for many teams, regardless of what path you take to comply with the rule.  Leaving aside any thoughts on the usefulness of the rule, I'm just pointing out that it favors a front braced design if you already have a footbox+rear braced design.  That's the path I see being most straightforward.

Edited by asims - Aug/30/2010 at 11:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote j-man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 1:25am
I agree with Chris. I will also add that most feelings I have of many judges since '07 are that ideally they'd like all the cars the same (they do have good reasons for it) and that they are not really good at visualizing 3D load paths or how energy/material/geometry/impacts relates together  (they don't have good reasons for this). I may be wrong, but that's what it sounds to us.

What we do is actually keep the feet inside the side impact plane, the latter being supported by the FBM up and down with an extra member which as no name except for part number. This as been accepted until now. We do something like this in the rear, which is directly take the shock load at the node and transferring it in the structure without any bending moment or torsion, but nobody understood it because some members are added that are not described in the rules. So they said they cannot consider them. We managed to have the rear end accepted by adding or cutting extra tubes, depending on the event.

Note that in the picture below you can't see the link between the two front shock nodes because it is hidden by the dash and the removable link at the rear ain't assembled.


That is what brings me to the conclusion I wrote in the first line. What seals my thoughts is when besides us in tech a team spends a quarter of the time there because the frame is exactly the rule's exemple, but you can bet which wheel will snap first on this car by looking at the brackets.

Baja will have to decide whether or not it is a car design competition. If they decide it is a car design competition, then the first thing will be in priority to find people competent enough to evaluate frame equivalences before the event (like in FSAE I think) because as easy as it can be, design a frame not necessarily like the template is a really big job for students AND judges. Many of you know this, and I also respect people who simply made the choice to go with the template for whatever the reason.

Otherwise, I suggest the complete opposite like we see in many offroad racing categories. Everybody as the choice between one, two or three frame design, maybe even buy them built. Then you have more time to loose control on suspension and/or powertrain stuff. You don't have as much freedom as you'd like to in terms of packaging and vehicle dynamics but you sure loose less time in tech inspection and maybe more time tuning some ABS or electrical diff on the test track... we're not (all) at University to spend our nights welding and cutting steel.

By the way, I wrote all this just because I think front bracings are ugly. My two cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrewT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 4:45am
Originally posted by j-man j-man wrote:


By the way, I wrote all this just because I think front bracings are ugly. My two cents.
 
+1, HaHa, I totally agree.
 
 
This rule change is a real bummer.  It takes more opportunities for creativity and innovation out of the design process for this competition.  It forces all the cars to look even more alike (and more like retarded go-carts than off-road race cars).  And worst of all, it forces the team I left to chop the entire front end off a beautiful car I built last year and make it ugly just to compete with it again; booooo.
 
I guess my opinion doesn't matter much anymore since I graduated, but I don't like it.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote collinskl1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 8:57am
Quote
And worst of all, it forces the team I left to chop the entire front end off a beautiful car I built last year and make it ugly just to compete with it again; booooo.
 
I guess my opinion doesn't matter much anymore since I graduated, but I don't like it. 
 
I'm in the same boat as you, and a lot of our teams are in the same boat... It will be pretty hard for the team I left to reconstruct our design with a footboxless design, and yes I think it will be ugly(er than our car already is.)  Hopefully we'll hear some reasoning from SAE, and mayyyybe they'll change their minds?
 
Off topic ramble:
 
Just because we are now graduates and alumni doesn't remove us from the realm of baja influence.  I think if anything it gives us more voice.  After talking to Sam Barill at Rochester I see that he really values the volunteers and alumni that come back to help out the program that they loved in school.  Also, being an asset to your school's team in an advisory role or a consultant type position is HUGE!  My team did not have any alumni experience to pull from, and it made things pretty tough when learning at times. 


Edited by collinskl1 - Aug/31/2010 at 11:13am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob71zilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 9:58am
Originally posted by collinskl1 collinskl1 wrote:

 
Just because we are now graduates and alumni doesn't remove us from the realm of baja influence.  I think if anything it gives us more voice.  After talking to Sam Barill at Rochester I see that he really values the volunteers and alumni that come back to help out the program that they loved in school.  Also, being an asset to your school's team in an advisory role or a consultant type position is HUGE!  My team did not have any alumni experience to pull from, and it made things pretty tough when learning at times. 
 
I couldn't agree more...


Edited by Rob71zilla - Aug/31/2010 at 10:03am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dillon_b12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 11:50am
Originally posted by asims asims wrote:

 

For teams with footboxes:  why not just convert to front braced designs?


Because then we can't rock a cowl hood! Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chris S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 6:29pm
^  and of course front bracing is butt ugly, our alumni would also kill us if we went front bracing, its against the rules at WM.

Edited by Chris S - Aug/31/2010 at 6:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CLReedy21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 8:10pm
Word from down the street and around the corner is that this rule is a mistake.  That's not an official word, but it's more than speculation.  Looks like we can put down the pitchforks and torches, it's gonna be OK.
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LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDTech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 9:42pm
Originally posted by Chris S Chris S wrote:

^  and of course front bracing is butt ugly, our alumni would also kill us if we went front bracing, its against the rules at WM.


Front, Rear, whatever brings home the goods.  Front braced has always worked out well for us. Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnfar109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 9:52pm
Originally posted by CLReedy21 CLReedy21 wrote:

Looks like we can put down the pitchforks and torches, it's gonna be OK.


i don't know  the lat time someone told me it was going to be Ok in baja i was finish welding a Frame mod in the back of our truck in Alabama 20 min before tech Closed. we made it through tech but it always makes me wince. Hopefuly the guy from down the street and around the corner is right. The Death wedge of old was cool back in the day but so was Spandex.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ehunt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 10:22pm
Originally posted by j-man j-man wrote:

 You don't have as much freedom as you'd like to in terms of packaging and vehicle dynamics but you sure loose less time in tech inspection and maybe more time tuning some ABS or electrical diff on the test track... we're not (all) at University to spend our nights welding and cutting steel.

By the way, I wrote all this just because I think front bracings are ugly. My two cents.


Good stuff here, there were definitely many late nights welding and cutting steel where I should have totally been doing some class work. I did in fact go to engineering school to learn how to be engineer not how to be technician and fabricator. Though being a tech or fabricator can be a whole lot more fun most of the time, the salary that comes with an engineering degree is rather nice and in the end I really do enjoy the technical side of projects.

However all that cutting and welding is also beneficial to the project in the sense of project management (the project management thread has some good stuff too). Building a frame is quite an undertaking and to get things right takes a fair amount of planning and preparation. Then to get the frame done in a reasonable amount of time takes additional planning of resources. So thinking of the alternatives of being allowed to build our own frames makes me shudder and I hope that things can safely continue in a similar fashion as they do now.

To comment on the actual frame rule I find it rather silly. The 2010 car was the first car that Cornell built with a "foot box" and the analysis and testing all showed that this design created a much stronger front roll cage. It effectively is similar to a front braced car in that the FBMs take much more of the force in compression and limit the bending stress seen in the RHOs without looking as hideous as a front braced car.



The 2010 car was able to take a pretty hard endo at Rochester but still go on to take home the goods, and look good doing it. I really see no reason to switch the rules, if anything require the bars that make up the foot box to meet certain requirements.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waffles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 10:28pm
Originally posted by johnfar109 johnfar109 wrote:

Originally posted by CLReedy21 CLReedy21 wrote:

Looks like we can put down the pitchforks and torches, it's gonna be OK.


i don't know  the lat time someone told me it was going to be Ok in baja i was finish welding a Frame mod in the back of our truck in Alabama 20 min before tech Closed. we made it through tech but it always makes me wince. Hopefuly the guy from down the street and around the corner is right. The Death wedge of old was cool back in the day but so was Spandex.




Did you ask saerules if it was okay?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/31/2010 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by ehunt ehunt wrote:

 
I really see no reason to switch the rules, if anything require the bars that make up the foot box to meet certain requirements.
 
I'll go along with that
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RonGeorge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/01/2010 at 3:02am
I do not see why people are complaining about this. Don't make the mistake of thinking that this rule is something novel invented yesterday.

All through the last two years (as far as I can see), the rulebook has clearly stated that the function of a rollcage is to provide a minimal amount of protection around the driver, not a boxy coffin for your grandma.

The rulebook states that this mininal protection primarily consists of a RRH, an RHO and a FBM. The most important bit is the rule states that when taken in side elevation, no part of the driver's body is to inflitrate the boundaries formed by these three, and the side protection members. The list of secondary members of the rollcage has never provided a provision for this "footbox" idea.

From a safety standpoint, this rule makes sense since this increases the crush zone thereby protecting the drivers feet from harm during frontal impact. SAE Baja will always form rules with safety as number one criteria.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GT Steve Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/01/2010 at 12:24pm

I disagree that the rules for the SIM and LFS members have not allowed for the idea of a "footbox". Rules B8.3.4 and B8.3.5 state the the LFS and SIM must extend to a point forward of the drivers heels and toes, respectivly, and the first part of rule B8.3.7 states that the FBM must intersect the SIM at or behind point SF, which is where this rule has historically stopped.  The implication here, intentional or not, allows for the "footbox" found on nearly all rear-braced cars.

Most of the push-back you see here (myself included) is from teams who historically run rear-braced cars, and have very little desire to see everyone being forced to build a front-braced car, which is essentially what the second half of rule B8.3.7 requires.
 
Figure RC 4 has been around in its basic form for as long as I can remember (at least 2004, which is the earliest rule book I have) and this was back in the day when there were no "primary" and "secondary" members and we could built a roll cage out of 0.049" 4130, which I still maintain is sufficent if properly fabricated and welded based on the speeds these cars can achieve, but I digress...
 
My point here, and that of may other teams, is that a properly designed rear-braced, footbox car is as safe or safer than a front-braced car, and in our opinion looks better, and this design has been, allowed since at least 2001 (the earliest GT car i worked on).  I believe the tubes which define the footbox, as stated in my first paragraph, are already required to meet certian minimal material requirements and are adequete for the expected loads.


Edited by GT Steve - Sep/01/2010 at 3:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CLReedy21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/01/2010 at 9:29pm
Originally posted by Waffles Waffles wrote:

Originally posted by johnfar109 johnfar109 wrote:

Originally posted by CLReedy21 CLReedy21 wrote:

Looks like we can put down the pitchforks and torches, it's gonna be OK.


i don't know  the lat time someone told me it was going to be Ok in baja i was finish welding a Frame mod in the back of our truck in Alabama 20 min before tech Closed. we made it through tech but it always makes me wince. Hopefuly the guy from down the street and around the corner is right. The Death wedge of old was cool back in the day but so was Spandex.




Did you ask saerules if it was okay?


I did, but they haven't responded.  However, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows some guys who said it was one of 2 mistakes put out in the 2011 copy of the rules.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote p.lewis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/02/2010 at 9:46am
Originally posted by CLReedy21 CLReedy21 wrote:

 ... one of 2 mistakes put out in the 2011 copy of the rules.
 
Naturally I'm going to ask you to share the other mistake with us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Waffles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/02/2010 at 11:20am
Originally posted by CLReedy21 CLReedy21 wrote:

Originally posted by Waffles Waffles wrote:

Originally posted by johnfar109 johnfar109 wrote:

Originally posted by CLReedy21 CLReedy21 wrote:

Looks like we can put down the pitchforks and torches, it's gonna be OK.


i don't know  the lat time someone told me it was going to be Ok in baja i was finish welding a Frame mod in the back of our truck in Alabama 20 min before tech Closed. we made it through tech but it always makes me wince. Hopefuly the guy from down the street and around the corner is right. The Death wedge of old was cool back in the day but so was Spandex.




Did you ask saerules if it was okay?


I did, but they haven't responded.  However, I know a guy who knows a guy who knows some guys who said it was one of 2 mistakes put out in the 2011 copy of the rules.


I meant did the RIT team check to make sure that their frame passed rules with saerules before coming to tech?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CLReedy21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/02/2010 at 10:24pm
Originally posted by p.lewis p.lewis wrote:

Originally posted by CLReedy21 CLReedy21 wrote:

 ... one of 2 mistakes put out in the 2011 copy of the rules.
 
Naturally I'm going to ask you to share the other mistake with us.


There are limits to my knowledge so unfortunately I can't shed any light on part II.  I'll see what I can do to find out though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CLReedy21 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2010 at 11:37am
Survey says that mistake #2 was te inclusion of the 2009 version of rule B8.3.9 (FBM/RHO gusseting) instead of the 2010 version. The correct version is the one from 2010.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asims Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2010 at 12:01pm
Any word on when/if an official correction will be made?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorbarash Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2010 at 6:47pm
New revision of the rules was posted today. No mention of this rule at all from my brief search. Carry on!

Edited by igorbarash - Sep/07/2010 at 6:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frinesi2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2010 at 8:43pm
Well, that made my day Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asims Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/07/2010 at 10:45pm
Now why in the world did they remove all dimensional and material requirements from B8.3.9?

I can already see people showing up with pathetic excuses for gussets.  I also see a lot of teams showing up with perfectly reasonable gusset and being sent back at the whim of a tech inspector...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LukeS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2010 at 2:57pm
After 2 years of struggling to put a team together we started building our frame today and needless to say this thread scared the sh*t out of me!  If it has been removed then that is awesome.  I designed our 2011 frame back in January and I'm hoping there wont be too many changes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2010 at 3:13pm
rear roll hoop lateral diagonal bracing must be within 5 inches from the bottom of the frame, but that subject needs to be another thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LukeS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2010 at 3:37pm
Originally posted by ErikHardy ErikHardy wrote:

rear roll hoop lateral diagonal bracing must be within 5 inches from the bottom of the frame, but that subject needs to be another thread.


Sorry I never noticed that was an old picture.  That was changed shortly after it was published initially.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikHardy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/08/2010 at 3:53pm
Awesome, best of luck on the build, keep us updated
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